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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: What is the benefit? Let us say a property is owned by a couple as joint tenants and one kills the other. There is the interest the offender has which belongs to him or her and there is the interest of the deceased interest that the offender subsequently acquires. Ms Justice Laffoy stated the part acquired was held in constructive trust. Are the beneficiaries always the children or the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Did Professor Mee say all of section 120 applied in that case?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: In practical terms and using that case as an example, he did acquire the benefit of his wife's interest in the joint tenancy. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: The Cawleys had to go to court in order to have their-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: They wanted to acquire his interest.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Had they not gone to court, it would have been quite complicated years down the road in trying to identify the beneficiaries of the constructive trust.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: If Ms Doyle wishes to speak now, that is fine.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Yes, absolutely.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: To simplify Ms Doyle's submission, she thinks that should a homicide event occur, the interest of the killer in the joint tenancy should automatically vest in the family of the deceased. Is that a fair assessment of it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: She is arguing that even the killer's own interest in the joint tenancy or property and not just the deceased's interest, would vest in the family of the deceased.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: I understand. I just wanted to clarify that before asking Professor Mee a question. I assume that he would argue that Ms Doyle's proposition is unconstitutional.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Does Professor Mee think that Ms Doyle's idea is unconstitutional?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: I am sorry to interrupt but some families say that they do not want to have to go to court. They would prefer for these matters to be dealt with automatically so that an event would trigger the law to operate in a certain way.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Yes. One cannot do this without going to court.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: In terms of the current situation, what happens now is slightly ambiguous from the family's point of view. Although we say that a constructive trust will be held for the benefit of the deceased's estate, people are not aware of that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Why is Professor Mee so opposed to discretion?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: How do we assess the benefit then?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: That would be quite complicated.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Justice, Defence and Equality: Scrutiny of the Civil Liability (Amendment) (Prevention of Benefits from Homicide) Bill 2017 (27 Mar 2019)

Jim O'Callaghan: Does Professor Mee think there should be legislation?

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