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Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: It makes my work a little more difficult at the beginning. The first thing I want to say which I said earlier in relation to the Department is that I represented around ten claimants against the redress board in 2007 in my capacity as a solicitor. I just want to make Ms Higgins aware of that. It has no bearing on the matter, but I just want to communicate it in the interests of...

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Ms Higgins said "may".

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: In my book, I think "victim" and "vulnerable" are different words.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Does Ms Higgins accept that she said: "You can't control people's experience of what we do for them", some clients "will never be happy" and grievances "suit such a narrative"?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I am just asking Ms Higgins if she made those comments about the claimants.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Perhaps Ms Higgins could clarify her comments.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Is Ms Higgins saying she did not say "You can't control people's experience".

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: So Ms Higgins did say it.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Ms Higgins is saying she said it but she is putting it in context. Is that correct?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: No, I did not ask that, I am just asking whether Ms Higgins made that comment: "You can't control people's experience of what we do for them", as in, ergo, Caranua.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Did Ms Higgins say that or did she not?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Ms Higgins did not say it.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Could Ms Higgins tell me what she did say?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I saw that in Ms Higgins's opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: So that is really the same thing, in essence.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I am not saying Ms Higgins is trying to deny them anything but I think she can understand how that can come across as a pejorative and insulting statement.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: And that it has quite passive-aggressive undertones. Does Ms Higgins accept that?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: So there is an admission that Ms Higgins said it and that she did not mean anything by it.

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Did Ms Higgins say the complaints about Caranua suit the narrative of the big bad State and the big bad religious congregations?

Public Accounts Committee: Caranua Financial Statements 2014 and 2015 (13 Apr 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Would Ms Higgins like to explain those comments?

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