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Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: The Minister of State can speak for himself.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: No. Vótáil.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I thank the Cathaoirleach for his advice. It is a sad day for Seanad Éireann and democracy that I am the only voice that stands out on this issue.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I notice there are only three people in the Seanad. Can the Cathaoirleach assure me that we have a quorum?

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I am.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I would like to tease out a few issues. This section relates to incest. Can incest take place between two males? There is an exclusion of male-to-male sexual activity from the Bill. I am curious as to why. I am not advocating that it should be included but I am curious to know why this particular form of behaviour is not covered by the Bill. Regarding the line "Any female person of or...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: It is not considered to be incest. That is very interesting. I made the same point in an interview and was publicly pilloried for it but the Minister of State has put the fact on record. That is what I said but I was publicly humiliated and held up as some kind of libertarian rascal. The Minister of State has not answered my question about a girl of 16 and three quarters years of age....

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: That is very interesting. That satisfies the Lolita syndrome merchants. Here we are again. The question of consent and so on is interesting. This time, it operates in a different way. A girl of 16 and three quarters can have sex with her father, grandfather, mother, brother or whomever else - actually, it does not include the mother - until three months later. What if she is 16 years...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Does the Senator see a smile on my face, or did she? Was I trying to be humorous? I am trying to project a hypothetical case and demonstrate that arbitrary lines like this have an element of folly. I did not smile once. How the Senator could construe my remarks as humorous, I simply do not know.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Yes.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I completely agree. I am highlighting the nonsensical aspects of the Bill.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I am sorry if Senator Cahill believes I am being humorous. I am certainly not being humorous but I am teasing this matter out as I am required to do as an elected Member of Seanad Éireann. The Minister has confused matters further by introducing a High Court or Supreme Court ruling on the question of pregnancy. Is the Minister of State suggesting that somebody under the age of 17...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: People can get married at 16. Senator Cahill should note these are the anomalies in the law. As with the Code Napoléon, we need to codify laws in a coherent and sensible manner so we are all treated in the same way. When the Minister introduces the notion of pregnancy, it seems almost to imply that somebody under the age of 17 cannot get pregnant. Quite plainly, she can and,...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: That is what I understood the Minister of State to have said.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: He introduced the notion of pregnancy.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Again, what I said is perfectly sensible. The reference to protecting girls from the risk of pregnancy is quite clear. I am suggesting that the Minister of State is implying there is no risk of pregnancy under the age of 17. I do not accept that. When the Minister of State spoke about the risk of pregnancy, perhaps there was something I did not understand. He says the age is over 17...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I believe I now understand what the Minister of State is saying. Is he suggesting the matter is covered by other legislation?

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: It was a very roundabout way of saying it.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I notice that there are fewer Members in the House than would constitute a quorum. Could the Cathaoirleach reassure me that the House is quorate?

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Yes.

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