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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I welcome everyone to this morning's meeting. We have received apologies from Deputy Catherine Murphy. If attending the meeting from within the committee room, members and witnesses are asked to exercise personal responsibility to protect themselves and others from the risk of contracting Covid 19. Members of the committee attending remotely must do so from within the precincts of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: No. Before we go the opening statements, I want you to address those three matters. I want you to address the non-attendance of the Governor or Deputy Governor at the meeting on 23 February and the issue of the two leaks.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: We should agree that it is disappointing that both of those happened. In the case of the one about the report from the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General, that happened one day before the publication and went to a journalist. Obviously, the journalist has to do his job; I would not expect him to do anything else. In fairness to them, that is their business and we need to have a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is not the question I asked.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Does Mr. Makhlouf find it a strange coincidence that it has again happened one day before this public meeting?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: How many officials-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: How many officials at the Central Bank would have known of that figure of €53 million?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: When Mr. Makhlouf says not many, are we talking about three or four or are we talking about 13 or 14?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Would it be half a dozen?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Okay. From the point of view of the Committee of Public Accounts that is very disappointing. All of us here, including the officials from the Central Bank, are all public servants. We have a job to do and we need to do it diligently on behalf of the public who put us here. This practice is very disappointing. I thank Mr. Makhlouf for that. I accept his explanation for not being here....

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: None of them was present. I now call the Comptroller and Auditor General, Mr. Seamus McCarthy, for his opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I now invite Mr. Makhlouf to make his opening statements. He has five minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I call Deputy Munster, who has 15 minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: We realise that the issue is not one of the items listed.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Obviously the Governor knows it is a major question. I ask the Governor to ask one of his officials to provide the figure before the end of the meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: Yes, okay.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: The Deputy has gone over time.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: People are paying 5%, 6% or 7% in interest. People did not change their situation voluntarily and the loan book was sold to a vulture fund. That is the concern. Did Mr. Makhlouf give the figure to the Deputy of 3% of €60 billion? Some €60 billion was on deposit with the European Central Bank, ECB. Therefore, €1.8 billion is the figure. Because Deputy Hourigan has...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I think the point the Deputy is making is that there were not the reserves there to meet those potential liabilities or liabilities as they may have been. Deputy Devlin is next but Deputy McAuliffe is switching with him and going first.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General: Chapter 14 - Assessment and Collection of Insurance Compensation Fund Levies (Resumed)
Report on Administration and Movement of the Insurance Compensation Fund for the year ended 31 December 2021 (Resumed)
Comptroller and Auditor General Section 2 Report on Unauthorised release of funds from the Central Fund of the Exchequer (Resumed)
(20 Apr 2023)

Brian Stanley: I share Deputy McAuliffe's frustration but there is a clear division between the Oireachtas and the Four Courts. That division is there for good reason. Unfortunately, this responsibility has been-----

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