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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Could we have a full breakdown of how that occurred? What was the level of salary for the CEO of HRI prior to this appointment?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Is that correct, Mr. McCarthy?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Yes, as I recall it. However, there was no company car, and I am assuming there was no option on pensions. A note on that to the committee would be fine.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: I appreciate that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Yes. I thank the Chairman.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Will Mr. Moloney explain to the committee the work of IGEES in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform? How is its work disseminated through the public service?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Does IGEES create changes in practice that provide value for money or that would provide value for money?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Will Mr. Moloney give us an example of that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Is that information available to the public?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: How does IGEES feed into the Economic and Social Research Institute, ESRI? How does the research that is carried out feed into the ESRI?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: The two organisations collaborate, for want of a better word.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Moloney mentioned the labour force and as far as I can see, there is no labour force. Every problem we have seems to be caused by the fact we cannot recruit people, particularly within the HSE. That brings me to another question. What is the role of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform when it comes to the question of public health and its budget? The health budget has...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Have we invested in it or squandered money? My definition of investment does not apply to the health service because I cannot see a result. I cannot see anything except lengthening queues. I know Mr. Moloney does not work in the health area but I am asking what is his position on this issue. We have doubled the budget and things are getting much worse.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: That is the point. The Department has a role in monitoring the use and spending of the money. I ask Mr. Moloney to elaborate on that. This might take a bit of time. I acknowledge I have only one minute left but this is an important point.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: I know it is.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: I do not want Mr. Moloney to repeat things back to me. I am asking what advice the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform has given. That money is going into a black hole. The HSE is not fit for purpose. There is no yield for the billions we are putting in. I met a little boy in a wheelchair yesterday. His application for funding for a new wheelchair sat on the desk of a civil...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Are we getting value for money from the Department of Health and the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Are we getting value for money from the Department of Health and the HSE?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: I am asking a straight question. Mr. Moloney and I do not need to argue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 39 - Office of Government Procurement
Vote 43 - Office of Government Chief Information Officer
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4 - Vote Accounting and Budget Management
(19 May 2022)

Verona Murphy: Mr. Moloney and I are on the same side. He referred earlier to sustainability, credibility and transparency. Are we getting value for money from the health service in Ireland?

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