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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: If we got it, what would this memo help us to conclude if we had sight of it or even of a redacted version of it? The Deputy knows more about it than we do so I am asking for his help on this matter.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General got that memo and had sight of that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I know it is not appropriate for the Comptroller and Auditor General to release it. We are not even going there but the Comptroller and Auditor General got it. Could they have cited similar legal reasons not to give it to you? I do not know but they did not do so anyway because you got the report.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Comptroller and Auditor General says the office received legal challenges to the release of the memo.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, they can say that. If the documents jeopardise-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am a layman but we can double check. It may be possible for the legal team to give us a synopsis of the memo, if not the memo itself, redacted or otherwise. If somebody could give us the key facts of the memo we could be satisfied that we had its content. There has to be a halfway house for this. I accept that some people do not want to be named and the college has to protect itself if...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: I know that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is not acceptable for the HEA to commence a process without having the authority to do so. It seems it was not sure of its legal powers before it started and went a long way down the road, with everybody co-operating. It exposed its own position and, at almost the final stage, somebody challenged its authority to commission the report and it is now an issue. It is dreadful for the staff...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: We can talk further during the week. Maybe the parliamentary legal adviser could give us some guidance, even if we cannot have the formal report.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is where we make recommendations in our reports.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: All we can do is issue a recommendation on what we found to be wrong with the process and what needs to be corrected. We have held off from completing our work because of the other things that have not yet been completed. Maybe we will have to proceed on the basis of what we have found and issue a conclusion, sooner rather than later, notwithstanding the fact that issues might be ongoing.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will we write to the Department on that basis?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will ask the secretariat to draft a letter and to let Deputy Cullinane and me see the draft before it goes out. It is right to go back to the Department. If we are not happy with how it goes, we will have to report on the case as we find it. The next item is No. 2069 from Mr. Seán Ó Foghlú, Secretary General, Department of Education and Skills, with documentation for...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: It relates to a premises in Bray. We will hold it over until the meeting, by which time we will have read it in detail.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: It could be happening on a widespread basis.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: We need to examine how legally valid are such leases. I agree with the Deputy. Perhaps we will hold it over and conclude it at our next meeting, with specifics. We will now move to correspondence from individuals. The committee has not met for a fortnight so there has been a slight build-up in correspondence. No. 2038, dated 4 March, is from an individual who is querying new...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is that only in respect of private nursing homes? Does the report deal with all nursing homes?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (28 Mar 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is good.

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