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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I would like to have seen how the private session was conducted in terms of dealing with the whistleblower.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: The Digital Audio Recording, DAR, system in the courts allows one to listen back to evidence that was given. It is very important when whistleblowers are coming in that the meeting is conducted properly, particularly when we are in private session. I would find it very useful, as a member of this committee, to have access to Sergeant McCabe's evidence, for example, and to hear how that...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I am requesting that. I would like to have access to that.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Whatever is-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: The Chairman must see how it would be useful to members, given that there is a precedent for this, in terms of how it is conducted-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I would appreciate a copy of same.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: The Comptroller and Auditor General said he had asked her to insert the paragraph.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Serious concerns are raised not only by the evidence to the committee last week but by what we has been said today. The allegations being made against the Commissioner-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I would really like to see this dealt with expeditiously. The public will want to know why this culture seems to be at play in the Garda, which Mr. Barrett has raised and Deputy MacSharry has raised, with regard to a cover-up. Many witnesses are involved, and whether we bring former Commissioners before the committee will be up to the committee. We must be mindful of Standing Order 186 and...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: The Comptroller and Auditor General mentioned that he will be doing the 2016 appropriation accounts in September. He also mentioned the possibility of doing a special report. If he decides to do a special report in the interim, how long would that take?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I thank the Comptroller and Auditor General for clarifying the situation. There was some confusion earlier in regard to this. I appreciate the Chairman's bona fides but one of the reasons I mentioned Standing Order 186 earlier, is that we try not to pre-empt political attacks without having all the facts before us. There are very serious concerns regarding some aspects of the Garda...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Sorry, the last thing I wanted to say was for the Chairman to withdraw the comments. I know Deputy Burke asked him to do that earlier but I ask him to withdraw the comments.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: I thank Mr. Waters and other officials from his Department for coming here today. He is subject to quick-fire questioning. The main focus of my questions today is on direct provision, which is the main item on the committee's agenda today. Deputy Farrell touched on some issues earlier. I appreciate where Mr. Waters is coming from when he said the Department is not a back-seat driver....

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Mr. O'Callaghan's colleague, Mr. Waters, has said that if there is mismanagement of public finances obviously the Department will take that very seriously. I appreciate all the witnesses' bona fides in that regard. Could the Department do anything further on this matter that is not being done at present to allay the public's concerns? As the witnesses will appreciate, we are under pressure...

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: We did discuss the special report, but the Comptroller and Auditor General is not in a position to do that before September anyway when he will do his appropriation account. I am not sure if that will be an option. Apart from that, could the Department be doing anything else?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: Could such a situation arise again in the future? Have the controls been improved to the extent that the Secretary General believes we will not be in this position where we are discussing an eventuality?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: The oversight, and checks and balances will be key.

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: While I do not want to put Mr. Waters in a position, I want to clarify some of his comments. Earlier he said that the Commissioner has legal responsibility for the Garda Vote, which I understand. He also said he would have expected her to have informed him earlier where there was criminal wrong-doing. Am I correct in that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2015 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriations Account (Resumed)
Vote 24 - Justice and Equality (Resumed)
Chapter 6 - Procurement and Management of Contracts for Direct Provision (Resumed)
(11 May 2017)

Josepha Madigan: The Commissioner will come in herself and will be able to-----

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