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Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: The Courts Bill is a different Bill.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I was interrupted by the confusion over the legislation.Putting in the phrase "a person under the age of 18 years" does not change anything in the legislation. It also leaves us in a situation where this legislation can chime perfectly adequately with European legislation. It does not conflict with it.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I wish to make a point since we are on the age of consent. I know it is an extremely troubled area. When legislation was going through some years ago, I coined the phrase "the Romeo and Juliet syndrome". I pointed out that a sexually experienced 16 and a half year old girl could seduce a sexually inexperienced 14 year old boy, and the 14 year old sexually inexperienced boy would be guilty...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Section 9 includes a new paragraph (a) with a definition of child pornography that includes any visual representation "that shows, or in the case of a document relates to, a person who is or is depicted as being a child". The reference to "the case of a document" seems a little odd to me. I presume this refers to a pornographic document. What happens in the case of Benny Hill dressing up...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I think that is rather silly. I do not care if it comes from Europe. An absurd idea comes into my mind. What about dwarf pornography? I do not know if such a thing exists, but they look like children sometimes. Are we outlawing dwarf pornography?

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: The whole lot are being taken as a job lot.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: This section deals with a person who "causes, incites or compels...a child to participate in a pornographic performance". Again, this may be some kind of European thing. I am keen to ask the Minister of State because I do not know anything about it and I believe the House would welcome the information. Is there any evidence of child pornographic material being produced in Ireland? I am...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Does this happen in Ireland?

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I thank Senator van Turnhout for this rather horrifying information.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I am in sympathy with what Senator van Turnhout stated, as it is revolting that someone in a position of authority should exploit a child for sexual purposes. However, it strikes me that paragraph (d) covers this matter adequately. It reads, "a current or former partner of a parent of the child". As such, the amendment is redundant and I see no necessity for it. I would be interested in...

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: They should be decriminalised.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: It should be ensured there is a sympathetic voice in those social services.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I welcome the people from Turn Off the Red Light. I completely oppose their position and suspect their motivation. The information supply has been disastrous. Senator Bacik spoke about social workers in Sweden. Attempts were made to silence a considerable number of social workers in Sweden who have spoken out and given statements contradicting the position of Turn Off the Red Light....

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Yes. I thank the Cathaoirleach. I welcome the partial decriminalisation of prostitution that is contained in this measure, but I deplore the criminalisation and it seems mad to take a unified transaction and criminalise half of it. It is absurd to decriminalise one half and criminalise the other half. There does not seem to be much logic in the Gallery here today.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I do not want them to be criminalised at all.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: No, I do not want to criminalise the purchaser. I want both of them to be accepted.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: I have been putting forward arguments that have been very clear.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: Nobody suggested that.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: It dehumanises him or her. It is very logical.

Seanad: Criminal Law (Sexual Offences) Bill 2015: Committee Stage (11 Dec 2015)

David Norris: It is a disgraceful day.

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