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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: On behalf of the taxpayer, I hope Mr. Barry is right but there is a credibility issue here. If it ends up being determined that the IFC cost was considerably away from the GMC, we will incur serious costs. In any project that would be correct, would it not?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I cannot correlate how, then, we ended up with a 63% uplift in payments to the design companies. According to this report, €27 million extra was paid to design companies, which is 63% more than what was agreed. In any correlation if we go from the GMP to the IFC cost - and I am sorry for all of the jargon but people who know this know what I am talking about and there are arguments...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Which was way out, obviously.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Is it not way out?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Can I ask a question though? Is it way out?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am sorry. Tone is an issue here. Is it way out or not?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I do not agree but go on.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is Mr. Devine's opinion.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is all in the report, in fairness.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Scope changes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Can I-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Devine is going to take up all of my time, I am afraid. That is the only reason I am-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Effectively, it is what I said. It is an increase of 63% in the design costs. Is that accurate?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is just fact and it is what it is.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I believe the correlation I outlined is accurate. I asked my next question last week and I hope Mr. Barry has had a week to reflect on it because transparency is an issue. The board is changing and that is fair enough. Fair play to anybody who is volunteering for this job, as I said on the that occasion. I thank them because it is not an easy role to jump into. In fairness to Mr. Barry...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am not asking Mr. Barry to making a comment about any individual.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am asking him a very simple question. Is the board strengthened or weakened? Mr. Barry is a skilled person who has been in front of committees for years. He is one of the best people I have ever seen for coming in front of committees and answering questions, to be fair to him. This is a very specific question that I am asking and the country is watching. Is the board strengthened or...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: By the way, the Government said publicly in the past that the reason the role was on the board was specifically because it needed to be and it was a good idea.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: This is about the seventh or eighth time. I am not asking Mr. Barry to do that. It is a very simple question. If he does not want to answer, that is fine. Well, it is not fine but I will accept Mr. Barry does not want to answer it. Is the board strengthened or weakened by the fact the role is no longer part of it? It is a pretty basic question.

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