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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: What does the Minister mean by "fair procedure"? Can she spell it out in very simple terms?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: That is the point. Individuals were named in the Goldson-Hardwick report. Are there specific named persons who it is believed are entitled to fair procedure? Is that the reason the report is not being published?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: The Minister is saying the process of the report-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: I appreciate that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: I am keen to have the point clarified to ensure I understand it correctly. Is the Minister saying there was a flaw in the process? Perhaps I do not mean a flaw in the process but rather the question of whether the process was imperfect to the point of saying there was nothing built in to allow persons possibly named in the report to be afforded due process and an entitlement to their good...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: To be helpful to the Minister, I will refer to correspondence received from senior officials. The relevant date is 13 November 2017. The correspondence states the Department is of the view that the following are mechanisms to progress matters to ensure the matters raised are addressed in respect of the board and principal people within it. The first mechanism is a response to the authors...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: We need clear answers to certain questions. What is the level of risk inherent in the Attorney General's advice to the Minister? There was possibly more than one piece of advice. Perhaps the Minister might clarify the matter. There may have been more than one engagement with the Attorney General's office. Frankly, I do not think the Attorney General said to the Minister of the day that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: I come at it from the point of view of being respectful of the Minister's position.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: Have they responded since? I am asking the question specifically about whether the process of publication of the report-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: The persons named in the report. I am referring to the persons or entities and practices criticised in the report. Have they had a chance to respond?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: Were they invited back?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: Were they invited back? Was the process designed to accommodate it? That is why I am talking about the process.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: Was the process designed in such a way that if findings were made against persons or the entity, there would be a right of reply?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: They did not do that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: I think it is a little clearer now.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: I am trying to reconcile in my own mind the interpretation of the Minister and the Department regarding the status of the report. If there is respect for due procedures, then there is an entitlement on the part of those who are the subject of the report to due process. Given that there was no further interaction between Professors Goldson and Hardwick, and notwithstanding the fact Oberstown...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: This is where the FOI data comes into play. I refer to a document of 15 August 2017 in this regard. I have a full set of the documents through FOI. The source is RTÉ and this is in the public domain. There is a letter in the Department which states that there is confusion generally as to the status of the report and that, while the reviewers consider the report to be the final...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: If the Minister tells us there is a conflict between the reviewers in terms of an understanding of what the status of the report is, that will provide some clarity. However, notwithstanding the advices of the Attorney General in the context of risk, as I understand it, the Minister still has full discretion, based on those advices, as to whether she wishes to publish the report. I am only...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: I suggest we will be revisiting this.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Children and Youth Affairs: Oberstown Children Detention Campus: Minister for Children and Youth Affairs (18 Dec 2018)

Seán Sherlock: To give the Minister some food for thought, I did not get into the statement that was issued by Professor Barry Goldson on 10 November, where he states very clearly in the public domain that he gave the board and the various stakeholders every opportunity to engage with him in respect of the issues before they went to publication. On the face of it, there seems to be a contradiction between...

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