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Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: I welcome the opportunity to speak with the committee today. After the publication of the final report of the commission of investigation in January of last year, many survivors were disappointed and angered by the treatment of testimony they provided to the confidential committee. Having gone to the effort of engaging with the confidential committee and reliving what happened to them in...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: What we are seeking to achieve in these proposals is to have the actual words of both those who gave testimony before the confidential committee and other survivors of these institutions on the record and for that to form part of the historical record. It is not just an archive that we are looking to create here. This is going to be part of the wider Government response in the centre for...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: I absolutely take the point the Senator is making. On the initial point, the Senator has described what I would like to see in terms of the final outcome. Obviously, as I have made clear, it will be people who have much greater expertise and knowledge in these areas, both in the collection of this material and its subsequent portrayal in the records of a memorial centre, who will make the...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: I will address a specific point. There was no proposal coming to Cabinet in June 2021. I am not sure, but I am aware there was some newspaper coverage of that. There was, however, no specific proposal. Indeed, in July 2021 when we debated the issue in the Houses I spoke about trying to ensure that the testimonies of persons who appeared before the confidential committee were on the public...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: We have sought to address the specific issues that survivors have raised with me and the committee. We have sought to address the specific things they want to see done. I have spoken already about information and tracing, which has been delivered by the Government. I have also spoken about the Institutional Burials Act, which has been delivered by the Government. The final draft of the...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: We are proceeding in a statutory way with this proposal, which will need to be based in statute. The Deputy has made a suggestion and has on a number of occasions raised a point about a general repudiation of the commission's report. That raises fundamental questions. If this Government takes a decision to repudiate a report that is disagreed with, what will happen when a commission of...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: I thank the Senator. I might give my reflection on what he has said because it is really valuable. In the 18 months following the publication of the commission of investigation report, we can see the huge problems with dealing with issues as sensitive as those the commission had to address in the context of the commission of investigation legislation. Deputy Cairns spoke about the...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: I will respond to that because I agree entirely with the Senator. That is the approach we are hoping to take with the records and memorials centre. We will have a source of records, and a legal basis for access to these records, where academics will be able to access them and make their own conclusions and judgments. These records will be open to everyone, academics and others, who wish to...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: I thank the Deputy and recognise what she is saying in terms of communication, particularly the communication of this issue. I recognised in my opening statement that this issue was not communicated properly. That is something we should have resolved. We have our quarterly bulletin but we should have provided an update on this specific issue. Survivors should not have been reading about...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: In response to the Chairman's third question, for clarity, is she talking about amending the commission of investigation legislation in a forward-looking way so that it can-----

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: Not that I know of - there may be a case for doing that in a forward-looking way if we use commissions of investigation again for issues as sensitive as this. Another commission of investigation - the Farrelly commission - is ongoing. Regarding the point about the High Court case, a case was taken by a number of survivors and former residents seeking that certain paragraphs in the...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: The key issue there was that the statement was appended according to court scrutiny. A judge of the High Court oversaw that process. It was not the Government doing something independently. It was scrutinised by another branch of the Oireachtas. Commissions of investigation are a creation of the Oireachtas. They are formed under that legislation. It requires a motion from the Dáil...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: The statement was appended because the outcome of a court process. A judicial review took place and in the context of that, there was an acceptance that certain survivors should have been provided with a final copy of the report and given the opportunity to make a comment on that final copy. On foot of that, there was an agreement between the State and the plaintiffs in that case that a...

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: Not that I am aware of.

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: The key issue in those cases was that certain survivors were identifiable from the text of the commission's report and because of their identifiability, they should have been consulted before the court believed-----

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: It is not an amendment. The commission's report has not been amended. It is a statement that sits alongside the commission's report outlining the dissatisfaction of these plaintiffs with the findings of certain paragraphs. Why is the Minister pursuing that approach?

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: Because that approach follows them having been identifiable.

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: That option is only open to them because they are identifiable in the report. It is not open to a Minister of the Government because that route, in terms of being identifiable, does not exist in that situation.

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: No.

Joint Committee On Children, Equality, Disability, Integration And Youth: Review of Testimonies Provided by Survivors of Mother and Baby Homes: Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth (4 Oct 2022)

Roderic O'Gorman: That is my understanding, yes.