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Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: A new premises was needed. Did they find the premises themselves and say "this looks good for us"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Is the board part of the Probation Service apparatus?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does the Bridge Project still exist?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I have no doubt. They are not public servants, however. It is a private entity that receives money from the State.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Is it a section 38 organisation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: That is fine. However, it operates on the same kind of basis. Who governs the project?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Do Department of Justice and Equality or Probation Service personnel sit on the board?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Okay. How much does it get per annum?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: We will continue on while somebody looks. It is a third-party organisation which does excellent work and it has a board of directors. We are not sure whether there are personnel from the Department or the State on that board.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: It does very good work. It picked a building and said it would work for the project. Were auctioneers involved?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I appreciate that. It is just that €3.89 million is a huge amount of money. I am interested to know what level of professional expertise was engaged and whether such professionals are covered by professional indemnity insurance to see if the State has some recourse for some of that €3.89 million.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Were any legal personnel other than the Chief State Solicitor advising the board? If they were, they would have to have professional indemnity insurance. If they played a role in advising that everything was tickety-boo on planning-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: The State's legal officers were in the Chief State Solicitor's office. They are exempt from professional indemnity insurance because the State indemnifies-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: We are in the area of a monumental mistake, as opposed to an error. One would do a planning search on a building in accordance with the first principles of conveyancing.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: One would try to find out at the outset if something had planning or did not. The Chairman said we needed to write to the Chief State Solicitor's office to ask what sanctions there are. We need to ask who made the error, without actually naming the person. How did this error occur and were they provided with false information by other experts for the landlord or agents, be they legal or...

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: That is not what I understood. I understood that the Bridge project sought to procure the building-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Yes, to the OPW and the Chief State's Solicitor's office. I appreciate that this is historical and that personnel are different. Deputy Kelly quoted from an anonymous letter from somebody claiming to be a civil servant.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I will read from some of it to put it on the record and give Ms McPhillips an opportunity to say something is or is not the case and to say what has happened since. It said managers were moved in the Department every two years. Is that true?

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: There is no mobility policy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2016 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Chapter 13 - Development of ICT Systems by the Department of Justice and Equality
Vote 24: Justice and Equality
(26 Apr 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Even if it is three or four years, is it not disruptive? Are we not allowing people to get their feet under the desk and then shipping them out?

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