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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: Does Ms Banim mean that if domestic water charges come back, the CSO will get it right the next time?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: The CSO will send us a note. We have six minutes left in this session and I call Deputy Connolly.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 4 - Central Statistics Office
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank all the witnesses. They may send the information directly to the committee. We appreciate that. This was a short session, but on a clear, concise area. I thank Mr. Dalton and his three colleagues for the information provided at today's meeting and the information we will receive in writing from them in due course.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will now examine the 2017 appropriation accounts, Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. The Comptroller and Auditor General, Seamus McCarthy, is the auditor for the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. He is accompanied by Mr. Bernard Barron, partner with Mazars, which carries out the audit on behalf of the Comptroller and Auditor General. I think it is the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: I thank Mr. McCarthy and call Ms Drinan to make her opening statement.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: What does Ms Drinan mean by examination reporting? Is that special reports?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: Thank you very much for that opening statement, Ms Drinan. Deputy Murphy has indicated and she will be the first speaker. I have to leave before 12.30 p.m. one way or the other because I have another commitment that I cannot get out of. We will see how we are fixed by then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: On the report, Ms Drinan stated that approximately 15% goes on the reporting side. Ideally, it would be good if that was at 20% or 25%.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: Its audit office has the resources or whatever to do these extra works. Although 75% may be routine audits, people may pay more attention to special projects and special works. That is an observation more than anything else. I am sure the witnesses would not disagree with it. Ms Drinan referred to contracting out and mentioned that it is done by local union agreement. Is that specific to...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: Person hours.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: Obviously, the figures have been published. What are the two or three largest audit fees received by the office? If the witnesses are not aware of that, I ask them to send a note to the committee. I am asking out of curiosity. Which organisations account for the largest audit fees?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: What level of fees do they pay? Is it €100,000 or more?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: Approximately €500,000. My guess of €100,000 was a low estimate. I ask that question in order to make people aware that organisations such as the NTMA and the HSE pay the largest fees to the Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General. It was stated that the target of the office is to get all audits completed within 12 months of their year-end and that it takes...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: We understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: The one good thing I see in the report is the draft for the 2018 performance report. It need not be put up on the screen. On page 13 there is a figure showing the uncertified accounts at the end of the year. I am not referring to the appropriation accounts but, rather, the performance report 2018. The witnesses are familiar with it. In 2013 and 2014, there were approximately 60...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: If the loss occurred due to weakness, the Comptroller and Auditor General will publish it if-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: If there is a weakness which may not have resulted in a loss but there is the possibility that it would if not corrected, that is a management letter issue.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes. It is a rough overview. Mr. McCarthy referred to an issue being "material". Is that based on its accounting for approximately 1% of turnover of the organisation or more? I know that it is different for organisations.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: €50,000 is €50,000.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 8 - Office of the Comptroller and Auditor General
(11 Apr 2019)

Seán Fleming: What the public are hearing from Mr. McCarthy is that the level of materiality applied by his office is very low relative to private sector audits.

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