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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I want to get an answer for the Deputy. Are the densities contained in law? "Yes" or "No".

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Are they not in law?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I agree with the Deputy on that. One person with whom I am acquainted who is a firefighter in a small station has told me that some crews are down to five or six members now. They are not able to recruit new members. There are posters outside the stations trying to recruit people. This individual told me that one of his children got first communion and there was a meal afterwards. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I have been arguing this for nearly two years. Mr. Doyle says we are moving in that direction but surely to God we should be just doing it. I cannot tell him which architects designed the schemes. There may even be better schemes somewhere else in the country but these looked to me like very good schemes. I have been in the houses, which are A-rated. There are also apartments in some of...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: What are the issues?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Doyle, please stop. They are being built on flat sites. Assuming that the sites can be serviced, what is the issue? There is a reason we were able to build at scale in the 1970s. I am not arguing for the same type of housing that was built then because we have moved on. Mr. Doyle and I agree on that. A-rated houses are now being built. The local authority houses that are being...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: There are eight plans, though.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Between 11% and 15% is still being wasted on architectural fees.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Mr. Doyle is talking about modular.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: That is fine. Modular is appropriate and some are going to be built very near my area in the very near future by ClĂșid. That is good. What I am saying is in regard to the standard of construction. I am not getting any comfort from what Mr. Doyle is saying in regard to straight builds by local authorities, which design and build and bring in contractors to do it. Why can we not use...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I would like answers to this.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Why not? There is the plan. I would bet anything that if we said to the architectural firms that design any of those that there is a royalty of a modest fee for each one that is built around the country, the very same as when people are selling records, we would get-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know it is different. Mr. Doyle knows that the gist of what I am saying is that each time their plan is used, they would get a modest royalty. That is all I am saying.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: What is the argument about using a uniform plan? I know there would need to be maybe ten different types for ten different family types, disability, elderly people, urban, rural, high density, low density, semi-detached and terraced - I understand that. Mr. Doyle still has not come back to me to say why this cannot be done. That is all I am asking him.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I want the Department to mass-produce. If we want to build them at scale, if we want to get 15,000 or 20,000 social, affordable and cost-rental units, preferably 20,000 or more, we are going to have to mass-produce. Does Mr. Doyle not agree? We cannot do it as it is. There were 1,166 built by the local authorities and 310 by the approved housing bodies, AHBs. That is all there was....

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I know, but that is when we add turnkeys, Part Vs and everything else into it as well. That is how we get the 7,000 but that is taking some out of the private market.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Would it be possible for Mr. Doyle to prepare a paper for the Oireachtas and the Minister to say why we can do what I am proposing or why we cannot? Is that possible? I am not telling Mr. Doyle what to do but I would love to see it. I know in my heart-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: But there is the cost, the delays and the time. I have a final question on the AHBs. We had a long conversation the last time Mr. Doyle was here and we had the regulator, Susanna Lyons, here. I spoke to Ms Lyons again recently. An annual sectoral analysis came out which is a very useful document. It states: Future Intentions of AHBs The annual monitoring programme sought information...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: They can change the status to a limited company. They could register with the Companies Registration Office, CRO.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
(1 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I gave the example to Ms Lyons on the previous day of one case where a private company is now dictating to the tenants that the rents are going up. By the way, since I last spoke to Mr. Doyle about it, more of the tenants have been forced to apply for social housing. It is social housing they are living in, built with taxpayers’ money on a site previously owned by the nuns or by the...

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