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Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: On the special work that the Comptroller and Auditor General can carry out, it is important that we achieve balance. While there are anomalies with the procurement facilities, would the Comptroller and Auditor General, in his audits with the Accounting Officers of all the different Departments, carry out a report on the processes of procurement in every Department? Would that be the case?

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: Many insinuations are being made today. One has to be careful to strike the correct balance in what one says.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: I would not like to prejudge the entire national procurement office.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: I fully agree that the schools can deal with Accounting Officers on the supply of products. Equally, there is nothing to stop a school or Accounting Officer from dealing with the supplier coming in. Issues arise in regard to value for money, however. Can Mr. McCarthy's office help us to put this issue to bed once and for all by preparing a value for money report on the national procurement...

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: I fought tirelessly on this issue when I was Minister of State at the Department of Jobs, Enterprise and Innovation.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: I got a letter issued to allow the schools deal directly with their supplier of choice, subject to the Accounting Officer for the school signing off as being happy with the value offered. Other insinuations have been made today about the national procurement office which need to be clarified. I will be asking the Comptroller and Auditor General to prepare a special report if such...

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: This has been circulating for quite some time. It is very easy for people to make statements with regard to various contracts or value for money but we have to allow the staff of that office to do their job and to use their purchasing powers. They deal with business worth €9 billion in contracts and suppliers. It is not a simple job by any means. We have to be careful in striking...

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: We want to have balance.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: The point-----

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: The point I was raising was about the collation of figures and the role of the Accounting Officer, who audits the 15 Departments on their procurement sections and how they purchase goods. I assume the relevant figures are collated by the national procurement office.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: I am asking the Comptroller and Auditor General for his views.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: His office carries an audit of every Department on procurement procedures and how goods are purchased. Does that not include an audit of value for money of purchases?

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: Why is that not the case?

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: Is that not a huge anomaly if the office is not carrying out value for money audits on goods supplied or preparing national value for money reports on the procurement office?

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: It could be done in respect of the procurement office.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: I am not missing the point. I am very clear.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: They are protected at the moment.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: It is important.

Public Accounts Committee: Procurement Issues: Small Firms Association and Irish Schools Arts Supply Federation (5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: You made a point about-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2013 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General Appropriation Accounts
Vote 11 - Office of the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform
Vote 12 - Superannuation and Retired Allowances
Vote 18 - Shared Services
Special Report No. 87 - Effectiveness of Audit Committees in State Bodies
Issues with Public Procurement
(5 Mar 2015)

John Perry: I compliment Mr. Watt on his four year tenure and obtaining funds for key Government services. Following on from Deputy John Deasy's point, does Mr. Watt consider it would be better to have the new audit committee which will audit local authorities under the Comptroller and Auditor General in order that the CEOs would be more accountable to the Oireachtas?

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