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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: I welcome the Minister of State and her officials. We will deal with the Supplementary Estimates relating to the Department of the Taoiseach. I ask the Minister of State to make her opening statement.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: I have a few questions for clarification about the Estimate. What type of costs are covered for the local State solicitor service? I think it is under subhead A7. Is it buildings, rent of storage or staff costs or is it just strictly the service of legal advice or actions?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: Does the State have to pay for the buildings they occupy?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: Is that all part of the expenses?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: What do they get? Do they get a lump sum each year to cover that expense?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: Is that to rent buildings and offices?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: If the Minister of State would, please. As the State pays them so much, what is the overview or audit arrangement for the money spent by them? Presumably, they get a sum under various headings. They are expected to spend that sum under those headings. If they spend the sum, who audits them?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: What is the total cost of the local State solicitor service in one year?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: It is not audited.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: Is it not strange to allocate €8.42 million of taxpayers' money and not audit it?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: They are not audited.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: It is interesting because as Members of this House, we are audited by SIPO. We have random audits. Yet, we can allocate €8.42 million. This is no reflection on those involved in this service. It is the process I am talking about in terms of the State, which is not audited. It is extraordinary. Moving onto consultancy services, value for money and policy review, how does that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: Yes but what does he or she look at? What do they audit?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: Financial controls within the Taoiseach's office?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: In the DPP's office. Who are they? What is the company?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: I understand.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: I would like to see what that person audits and what he or she thinks of the unaudited figure of €8.42 million. It also states that the auditor or another auditor has a policy review section. It is stated under the figure anyway - consultancy services, value for money and policy review.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: The Minister of State might give us a cost on that as well.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: Did the section that spends the money on the consultancy services on VFM and policy review ever carry out a review of the value for money in the context of the citizens' assembly? Did the last assembly cost us approximately €1.9 million?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Estimates for Public Services 2023
Vote 2 - Department of the Taoiseach (Supplementary)
Vote 5 - Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions (Supplementary)
(23 Nov 2023)

John McGuinness: The citizens' assembly here is bypassed most of the time. Then we have a separate citizens' assembly that meets occasionally on issues that is costing the State €1.9 million. That is just clarification again. Could the Minister of State give me a list of tribunals that the Department of the Taoiseach is responsible for and all of the costs to date for them?

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