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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: The Chair will be aware that I wrote to him on Monday seeking that we bring back the CEO of Children's Health Ireland, CHI, at the earliest possible opportunity. The committee is now in agreement that we will write to the CEO of CHI to ask a number of questions about the revelations by The Sunday Times about the National Treatment Purchase Fund. My question in this instance is for the...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: I thank the witnesses. On 4 February 2025, Ms Kennelly and Ms McGrath met the current Minister and the minutes of that meeting record that the Minister inquired of both the chair and the director whether either they or their predecessors had discussed with the previous Minister or the Secretary General the business transformation programme subsequent to its commencement, to which both...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Leaving all that aside, on the specific point did Ms Kennelly reply "No" to that question as to whether-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: But the question is about the Minister or the Secretary General. Did Ms Kennelly tell the Minister or the Secretary General, or their-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: To be absolutely clear, Ms Kennelly is not disputing that she did not tell the previous Minister or the Secretary General.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Okay. That is what the minutes say so I am not sure what Ms Kennelly is disputing in respect of the minutes.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: That is fine but Ms Kennelly did not-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: I am not interested in the format of the minutes. I just want to know the substance. The substances is that Ms Kennelly did not tell the previous Minister or the Secretary General prior to the commencement of the project. That is factually correct. Is that true?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: The minute records that the Minister inquired of both the chair and the director whether they or their predecessors had discussed the business transformation programme subsequent to its commencement with the previous Minister or Secretary General, to which both replied "No". Is that still the position, namely, that the chair and the director did not speak with the previous Minister or the...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: That is fine. I am just trying to establish the facts.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: That is a dispute between the Department, I am interested in the substance-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Good point. But the point is that Ms Kennelly did not discuss it the previous Minister or the Secretary General.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Ms Kennelly might share that correspondence, if she could, with the committee.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Am I correct in saying that the quarterly liaison meetings that were taking place between the Arts Council and the principal officer, to which Ms Kennelly is referring, were shared with Mr. Falvey at some point in late 2023? Am I right about that?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: What did Mr. Falvey do with the minutes where obviously these issues were being highlighted and flagged? What was Mr. Falvey's subsequent action?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Just on the specific point of the minutes, what did Mr. Falvey do when obviously these minutes presumably recorded the growing issues and the costs? What did Mr. Falvey do with that information?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: So there was nothing in the minutes that gave Mr. Falvey pause for concern.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: In terms of Mr. Falvey's role, he received the minutes-----

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: Was there any further action taken by Mr. Falvey further to those minutes?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2023
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
Financial Statements 2023: Arts Council
Financial Statements 2023: National Gallery
Report on the Accounts of the Public Services 2023
Chapter 10 - Measuring the Performance of Arts and Sports Spending
(29 May 2025)

James Geoghegan: I thank Mr. Falvey. The Secretary General mentioned that in the summer of 2024 he advised the Minister to not bring to the attention of the Government the issues that had arisen in terms of rising and escalating costs because he wanted to carry out a further report. That was the Secretary General's advice. He also referred to a statement that the Minister has subsequently issued in recent...

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