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Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: What was the cost of payslips for last year?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: From what total payroll number of staff?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: We have a long way to go.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: I take that on board. Essentially, we have a payslips bill of about €3 million per annum, which everybody in this room accepts is not an efficient use of public money, and there is more printing on top of that, as well as postage.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: Who pays for that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: It is paid by the public purse. Let us not get into that, as it is a different area. My point is that there is a cost of €3 million. In 2020, a figure of €10 million was given for a multi-annual period and postage has increased over that time. This problem is only getting worse in terms of the postage costs.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: To be fair, I have allowed the witnesses a lot of time to talk about this so let me respond. The figure went from 19,000 to 27,000 and the witnesses are now saying it is in the mid-30,000s. That is over the space of the last two or three years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: It is an incredibly slow take-up. My understanding is that it involves the teacher first making an application for a public services card, which often involves them doing it on a day when they are not working because that is how it operates. Is anything being done with regard to the public services card in order for teachers to be able to access that service within the school?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: How did the Department design a system that left it dependent on another Department to implement it?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: When Ms McNally says “failed”, she means it was not possible to secure the solution that the Department wished.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: When it went to the market, no one applied.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: The prequalification elements excluded them through the process.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: This is not rocket science. Issuing electronic payslips happens in millions of organisations around the world. It is not rocket science.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: The biggest payroll and one of the last employers to come to electronic payslips.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: Why was it possible for ETB staff to transfer but not the staff of other patron body schools?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: Have there been any discussions with the trade unions? They would welcome discussions. We have to stop wasting public money on postage right now, not next year.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: I am not suggesting that the unions are blocking anything.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: What I am saying is that the Department needs to do far more. There will be many interventions over the course of a year, such as in-service days, different things and so on. This is a major priority. Some €3 million could be spent on all of the other things we talked about.

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: Is postage not increasing?

Public Accounts Committee: 2022 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 26 - Office of Minister for Education
(16 May 2024)

Paul McAuliffe: If the Department does not solve this, it will only get worse.

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