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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: That means we will start drafting legislation once there is approval. I am sure the Deputy will appreciate that this is a priority and we must get this legislation through. I have been in this role a relatively short time and I have committed to getting it over the line.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I thank Deputy Roche. I will make a couple of points. The safe staffing mix and qualifications for staff are currently being looked at by a task force. We expect to receive that report very shortly. It is something we will act on as a Government. As stated, safeguarding is an absolute priority. It should not be overlooked that there are safeguarding regulations in place, through the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: The Government provides the policy to allow independent regulatory bodies like HIQA to function. HIQA did not formally request that specific measure up until the interim report. What happened historically was that most nursing homes were probably family-owned and operating as small traders. If they sold the business, then it had to be re-registered. A situation then arose in respect of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I refer to all situations. This is something I want us to we move on. The Minister, Deputy Carroll MacNeill, will be bringing a memo to Government very shortly on all these matters in terms of the changes we can bring in the operation or the registering of nursing homes by HIQA. HIQA has acknowledged, in the report and in its deliberations with the committee today, that changes need to be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: As the Deputy will be aware, in the context of providing security for nursing homes residents, if a provider fails, the State, through the HSE, steps in so that the home can continue to operate. We took over six nursing homes in the past year. There were Bushfield Care Centre, Fearna Manor Nursing Home and Lucan Lodge Nursing Home and three homes that were operated by Aperee, namely, Aperee...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: We really need to take a look at this now. On the morning before its programme went out, RTÉ broadcast details of the nursing homes that would be covered. I immediately sought a meeting with HIQA to get the body of work we are discussing done. It is to come back with a further body of work by the end of this week in respect of the overall Emies group. These are matters I take very...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: Will the Deputy repeat that?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: Very briefly, as stated, if HIQA, requires additional resources, it should let us know. It has got additional inspectors. The number now is 43. I am not aware of the issue the Deputy raised in respect of turnover. On the strategic workforce advisory group's report, it is something I have engaged on with the officials. It is also something I am prioritising.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I am very much open to meeting with the trade unions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I might take the questions in reverse order if that is okay with Senator Costello. I have covered staffing levels. A task force report is due to come to us without delay. In terms of individual complaints, measures are to be brought in whereby, in cases leading to death or serious injury, HIQA will be able to carry out investigations. That is something we very much want to expedite. ...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I will take Senator Ryan's question first. Is she speaking about specific funding to nursing homes?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: HIQA is the independent regulator, and it has a number of tools. One is that it can put a restriction on the number of residents in a home. A second measure is to deregister a nursing home, in which case the funding ceases.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: Absolutely. I assure Deputy Clarke that I want to bring forward safeguarding legislation as quickly as possible. In the programme for Government we have committed to bringing forward a safeguarding policy. The Government must give approval to proceed with the legislation on safeguarding. I want to bring it forward as quickly as possible, in conjunction with the Minister, Deputy Carroll...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I accept the point. It is unforgivable that there were not adequate supplies in those nursing homes. It was neglect.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: We will consider everything in the round in terms of the safeguarding itself. For me, it is once again about improving at all times the lives of people in nursing homes, and more particularly making them safe.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I thank Deputy Burke. The point he raised is something the Department is very conscious of, as I am. As I said earlier, the Department of Health commissioned the report with the European Observatory on Health Systems and Policies to specifically look at it last January. It will look at the growth of groups in Ireland delivering nursing homes and the risk that poses in terms of them failing...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: There are two things on that. The Department of Health and the HSE have a productivity and savings task force that is looking at that particular point around savings related to public nursing home beds. We need a mix. I want to promote and expedite the provision of public nursing home beds but we must have a sustainable model in the private. There are a lot of family-run nursing home, and...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: That is something that is hugely important to state as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: I would like to see that research the Chair has provided. We have an empirical body of work ongoing with the European Observatory on Health Systems and Policies to specifically look at the growth of groups and what the Chair said about their large increase in delivery of healthcare. That sector is regulated as well, and there are good nursing homes there. As I have come into the role now,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Standards of Care, Related Practices and Oversight in Nursing Homes: Discussion (18 Jun 2025)

Kieran O'Donnell: It comes down to individual nursing homes. HIQA is regulating across the sector, whether that is in the public, private or voluntary sectors. It is about that individual nursing home. The Chair might provide that research that he has and I will follow up on that.

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