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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: As I indicated to the Deputy and to the Dáil in an answer on this matter some weeks ago, my Department had papers regarding an AIB board meeting shared with us on 29 June. On 1 July, an official in my Department was made aware of this. Officials met AIB in relation to the normal engagement that we have with them. I became aware of this matter on Tuesday, 19 July.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The comments the Taoiseach made were entirely appropriate. He was commenting publicly on the matter. He was asking the banks to be aware of this decision and the consequences of it, but he was not directing them to do it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----or maybe he is not; I have to keep reminding him of this. An unfortunate truth for Deputy Doherty and Sinn Féin is that as the majority shareholder in a bank, we are still not involved in making commercial decisions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I know Deputy Doherty is just looking for content-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am sorry to have to inform the Deputy of this. I would have thought, as a long-standing and distinguished member of the committee, that he would be aware of that fact. It is the Central Bank of Ireland that determines it. The Central Bank is intensively engaging with Ulster Bank with regard to its withdrawal.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Of course-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Of course, the difference between me as a member of this committee and other members of this committee, all of whom I hold in very high standing, is that I am the Minister for Finance and I have policy responsibility in these areas. I have to be cognisant of the role of an independent regulator. At the moment, I believe there are some signs of progress under way with regard to the orderly...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: It would have been much better if the bank had given far more time in between its announcement and the actual implementation of the decision in order to allow proper community engagement and engagement with stakeholders on the matter. I do not believe there was any link or relationship between the decision that it made, how it was communicated and the levying of that fine.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Absolutely. I am sure that even the bank would acknowledge that the communication of the decision and engagement with those who will be affected by it could have been done in a completely different way.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No. It is an investment by that banking group in Permanent TSB, which I really welcome. It has enabled Permanent TSB to be involved in a number of transactions that have made the bank, and will make the bank, a larger financial service provider and larger domestic bank. It is only an investment. Any influence or any view that Permanent TSB will have on the development of banking policy...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I do not think so. The reason is, if one has a look at the staffing plans and investment plans that banks have here in Ireland, such a large share of it is in information technology, IT, investment. So many of the staffing decisions that our banks are now making are about how they hire the people who have the right level of expertise in IT and in cybersecurity. While it is undoubtedly the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: With the passage of time, the amount of capital that our banks are required to hold due to the impact of the global financial crisis will diminish. That will happen over time because the reference period will include less and less of the crisis and post-crisis years. All that being said, even though I am aware of the perspective and analysis regarding how much capital our banks hold and how...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The sectors or the customers of banks will always want more credit and want that credit available at lower interest rates. I am always conscious here of the critique of our banks regarding them not lending enough and the lending they are doing being available at too high an interest rate. All that being said, if I look at the credit demand surveys that my Department regularly publishes, all...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: If I look at the credit union movement, and I had the opportunity to meet my local credit union on Friday, I see increasing signs of it trying to move into providing new forms of lending to meet both commercial and, increasingly, mortgage needs. The loan book for the overall Irish credit union movement now stands at €5.4 billion. It has grown by 6% versus the previous year. Their...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We cannot force investment funds to be involved in anything. To develop the Deputy's point a little more, it could well be the case that the pillar banks are deciding not to be involved in certain forms of construction activity. Indeed, it could also be the case that the interest rates and the commercial terms that banks are offering are not attractive enough for those who are involved in...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am not aware of that. I am sure the Deputy would have concrete evidence of this, or is getting this judgment from a trusted source in order for him to raise it here. The matter of interest rates and who is offering what is not an issue I am involved in. In my experience, what might be happening is that those involved in delivering the projects that the Deputy is referring to might be...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: In short, it has not been brought up with me. Many of the issues that I am aware of are more around the migration of consumer accounts rather than business accounts at the moment. If the Senator would furnish me with some of the examples she is referring to I would happily raise the issue in general terms with our banks. I would be surprised if continuous bank records being provided from...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: With the co-operation of the Oireachtas, I hope to introduce the legislation on Second Stage in October. It will make for a very busy October, November and December because we will have the Finance Bill and the SEAR legislation all together. I hope to present Second Stage in some weeks. With the co-operation of the committee and the Oireachtas, I hope to be in a position to have it passed...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: That is exactly the reason we are bringing it in - to do all we can to prevent things like that happening in the future.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We are still a significant shareholder in both AIB and Permanent TSB. We are approaching being able to exit Bank of Ireland entirely. We are not at that point yet. Obviously, a public announcement will be made if and when we got to that point.

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