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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Yes, I did.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I acknowledged that this was a commercial decision made by the bank, which it was. The Deputy asked us all to imagine a moment in which he could be Minister for Finance. In imagining that moment, he would also be aware of the need to have an absolute line of separation between the Department and the commercial independence of the bank, which has to underpin much of the engagement that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I do not have the Deputy's freedom of information request, and nor should I. I do not have the material that was released to him but phone conversations happened regarding the matter where, as I said, my Department respected the independence of the bank because we do and we must, but also made it clear to the bank in those conversations that it was fully aware of the reaction to this matter,...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I do not know the answer to that because I do not know when the information the Deputy referred to was released back to my Department and came through. I do not know how that is sequenced with the conversations that happened.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We cannot do that. It was a commercial decision of the bank-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: ----- which is why I have made very clear to the Deputy, and I will do so again, that a fundamental element of the relationship the State has with banks is that we have to respect their commercial independence. Two banks have already left our country. We hope the three banks we have will be sustainable and will meet the needs of our economy in the years to come. Any sense at all that I can...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Contact was happening across this period.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am sorry to disappoint the Deputy again because I have made clear to him that conversations were happening. I understand that Mr. Colin Hunt acknowledged this in his testimony to the committee. He made it clear that contact had happened.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: That contact happened. The decision was reversed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Whatever I did, or never do, it will never be enough for the Deputy. The key point is-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: If I am ever in a position where I surprise the Deputy with the extent of the decision I have made, I will have to consider whether I have made the right decision. As I said, the key thing is that the decision was reversed. I have been very clear in acknowledging that contact happened between my Department and the bank to make sure it was aware of the public reaction that was under way....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is clear-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy knows that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Deputy Doherty might allow me to conclude the different points we have made here. First, I was very clear in being very careful to say it is up to the banks themselves to assess the impact on their reputations. As the Deputy well knows, the decision here has been reversed. If I was sitting in front of Deputy Doherty and my Department had not made contact with the bank-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy keeps on saying that but I keep saying back to him that I know this is-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----for social media videos.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Let me be clear in repeating for the final and umpteenth time to the Deputy that while some discussions may have been happening with regard to speaking points in order that we were fully aware of what was happening and what the bank was saying, equally, at the same time, my officials contacted the bank to first acknowledge its independence but also make sure it was fully aware of the public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: There Deputy Doherty goes again. On one hand, he deliberately confuses the role that I have as the shareholder and on the other hand, surely, he knows-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy might let me finish answering his question. Surely, he knows that is a decision for the regulator. Does he not know that? It is a decision for the Central Bank of Ireland to determine that, not me.

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