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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am asking how the Department knows that employment would not have otherwise been crated if this scheme was not there. What is the evidence for that?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: I ask for a written note on that.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: Just in terms of that evidence.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: I have a couple of quick questions. The Central Bank imposed a fine of €10.8 million on the Bank of New York Mellon, which is the agent for Ireland's escrow fund. What steps have either the Department or the NTMA taken in response to that fine?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: The NTMA, in turn, comes under the Department's guidance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: Okay. The fine will not have any impact on the relationship between the bank and the escrow fund.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: Okay. What work does the Department do in the regulation of banks or companies that would essentially be in receipt of very beneficial contracts? They would essentially be State contracts. What role does the Department play in that regard?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: I have a number of questions, but there is one I want to get to. To be very brief on that matter, is it fair to say in respect of fines or any of these issues, the Department is not necessarily proactive but rather it depends on information provided from others, whether it is the company or elsewhere.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: The privatisation of Telecom Éireann was one of the worst political decisions made, and we are still facing the repercussions of that in matters of broadband provision. I went through our earlier exchange on the pension fund. Essentially, €1 billion of additional taxpayers' money will be spent on a company that was privatised in 1999. This is a significant issue in the context...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: With respect, Mr. Hogan could not tell us who is managing the fund or the role of the Department in terms of oversight.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: It is a matter of public interest.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Finance
2020 Report on the Accounts of the Public Services of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2020
Chapter 16 - Ireland Apple Escrow Fund
Audited Financial Statements of the Exchequer for 2020
(5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: It would be when the last person in it dies.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: I have a separate issue that relates to the updates provided on page 4 on major projects at pre-appraisal activity stage. Among the projects for which an update is given is the N2 Clontibret to the Border scheme. As we discussed in the hearing with TII, it has been removed from the funding allocation this year. The price range is now given at €280 million to €340 million,...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: The N2 Clontibret to the Border.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: On that point, he also states that ultimate responsibility for this would lie with him. We are told that in February and March of this year, the value of claims increased by a further €31 million. That means a total of €585 million. From what I am aware of, any dispute that has been resolved has been resolved in favour of the contractor. It would be useful to get...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: The first was the effect of the disputes. The second is whether the committee can get advice as to whether we have some mechanism by which-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: The claims and the arson issue were the two questions.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (5 May 2022)

Matt Carthy: No, I am asking if we can seek advice as a committee, either through the Oireachtas or through the legal services. This is setting a very dangerous precedent. If we are talking about a project to the tune of billions of euro where a Department is refusing to engage in a constructive way with the Committee of Public Accounts of the Dáil, which is how I would describe it, then that is...

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