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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Does the Minister or Revenue have any detail on the breakdown of the number of non-resident landlords, the number of tenancies that are deducting 20% and the number being paid through agents?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There are 40,270 residential properties whose landlords are non-resident. Is that information correct?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There is €328 million in rental income. Is there a breakdown of how the tax is being applied? In what proportion of the 40,000 units is the tenant deducting the 20%? I presume that number is very low but I do not know. I have never seen the figures. Is there a breakdown showing that proportion?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: There are 40,270 residential homes - houses or apartments - where the landlord is non-resident. Tax is applied to those tenancies in two ways, of which one is through a collection agent and the other through the tenant deducting 20% and paying directly to Revenue. Do we have any sense of how that is happening? Are there figures on the split or proportions?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I would say it is. I do not want to dispute this with the Minister's officials but if people are paying directly to Revenue, I am sure-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Of course.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The other piece of information may be available in a document but I have not seen it. What has been the trend with regard to non-residential landlords? We know there are 40,000 units at present but what is the trend? Are institutional investors captured under the heading of non-residential landlords?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We know they do not pay any tax anyway.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I appreciate that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Can I chair from where I am sitting?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Amendments Nos. 68, 71 to 73, inclusive, and 79 are related and are to be discussed together.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Could I add something? Since the tax is self-assessed, and given the Revenue Commissioners' function regarding not only the local property tax but also its predecessor, they will have limited information on houses people claim are uninhabitable, having regard to the household charge. I do not know whether they retain such information or, indeed, information on houses that were subject to...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: We have not finished the discussion on this group.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: The discussion on the-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I have a number of issues to raise on this group of amendments. Deputy Matthews talked about the rate it applies at. My amendment No. 79 will deal with this issue. The rate is currently 0.3% of the value of the house, which is well below what we see in other vacant property taxes. In the example Deputy Matthews gave, it was 1.5%, which then increases. There is an argument that vacant...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Yes. I am deeply frustrated at the slow pace of that. There are three things we need to do. The first is that there should be a minimum amount to recognise that in some cases the property's valuation will incur a low local property tax. Three times a low value can result in €270 and over the period between 2024 and 2027 the owner will pay less than €900. Imagine that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Will the Minister clarify that he does not believe there needs to be a minimum amount of tax applied to a vacant property, as I put forward? I do not believe the Minister has addressed that issue. Does he believe that the minimum amount, which is €270, is sufficient?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: Okay. When we are dealing with Estimates we always ask that not just the measures are looked at but also the outcomes of the measures. What measure of success will the Minister use? What proportion of vacant properties does the Minister wish to see reduced in year two year three, and year four to actually measure this is a successful taxation measure?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: For a fella who has taken the guts of half a decade to bring forward a tax that will not apply for another year and a bit, the Minister has not even got a sense in his own head of what the objectives of this are with regard to any measurement. The argument was put forward that the Minister has done nothing about this for years - until the last year really - because he wants to get it right...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Pearse Doherty: I know the methodologies. Everybody knows that. What are the Minister's targets?

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