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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Senator Conway-Walsh is next.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Deputy Burton's time is up.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: I do not know how Deputy Pearse Doherty feels about this, but the media coverage of the Bill in the statements from all of the usual suspects rained heavily on him this morning. The language used could equate to an effort to scaremonger in getting the message out about banks not being able to raise money, interest rates going up and the next mortgage applicants not being able to apply to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Recent sales have been characterised by a hierarchy of companies. There is the first purchaser and then there is the beneficiary. There is a confusing structure in terms of where the loan and its benefits will finally end up. We do not know and certainly the borrower does not know.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Who owns the note at the end of it?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: That is fine. I want to know who they are. If my loan with a bank is sold to another party, I might know who that party is in Ireland and who I have to deal with but I do not know who owns the note at the end of it. I do not know the reach of all of this. The Irish people have a right to know. Mr. Sibley might refer to the construct put on purchases by the banks and others in the world...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: But Mr. Sibley is not addressing the question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Should we not know all of that? It is a great mystery to the individual, who is not well versed in the language of the world of finance. Further mystery and secrecy are added by virtue of the fact that a party who is benefiting from the loan, by way of profit from the sale of the loans, is not known to the individual. Mr. Sibley might say that is the way it happens in the world of finance...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Essentially, we are never going to know. That is really what Mr. Sibley is saying. We are going to get just enough information but not all the information. That is the nature of it. It is a matter of answering "Yes" or "No".

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: We do not know and we will not know. The next matter is the right of the individual to speak to the fund or representative of the fund, and the right of that individual not to be treated as a second-class citizen when dealing with that company. I have to tell the Central Bank and the Department that the agents of the funds who are here, regulated and so on have a history of treating people...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: The Central Bank is the go-to entity for a customer who wants to make a complaint. I have seen more written and heard more said about the rights of the banks than I have about the rights of the consumer, which concerns me greatly.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Yesterday I met a woman - she was not from my constituency - who had a thick file and was well versed in the world of finance. She told me that she had failed to get to anyone within one of the main banks to influence it in the context of a decision in her case. She was in her tenth year of trying. I come across a lot of such cases. Some people quickly ignore that and say they are cranks...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: I am suggesting to Mr. Sibley that a large number of people are finding it difficult to engage with the banks. They do not return phone calls, they take forever to deal with issues, and they wear down the individual so that at the end of it, he or she is beaten. If an individual is beaten by the system, having tried it, his or her family is beaten. It has terrible social consequences.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: No. I am trying to bring to the Central Bank's attention the reason for the Bill being here. The reason for this and the other Bills that are coming before us is Oireachtas Members are being approached by individuals who are telling us this story. We hear about the stress. We witness them crying with their children, in courts all over the country in the context of repossession. Deputy...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: I did not say Mr. Sibley did. I am saying this to the Department of Finance. That is what is going on here. It is amazing how quickly Mr. Draghi, I think it was, wrote to us. Over there, they jump out of their skin to protect the banks by writing to committees such as this but whenever we try to protect the citizens of the State against a banking system that brought us to our knees, we get...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: I accept that but I ask Mr. Tobin to accept that what he is telling us, and the statistics he has given, are not the full story. There is another side to this, which other members of the committee and I have described during this meeting and others. We are simply asking that what we say be recognised. Deputy Burton made a point about the Constitution and the citizens of the State. By...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Does the Department serve us on this committee?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: It is all the one club. Why would the Department go against another member of the club? This is what people say. They say the Central Bank ignores the public and the plight of people. Perhaps the committee could have a full day's session with all the affected people and give a voice to everything that is happening, on both sides of this argument. I will put that to members at our next...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: Where did that come from?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Joint Committee
No Consent, No Sale Bill 2019: Discussion
(2 Apr 2019)

John McGuinness: The money from Europe came through the Central Bank to the banks.

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