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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: We will come back to this. We have gone over by ten minutes. Ms Hegarty's submission contains a very good graphic on the evolution of space. We can discuss it as part of the reply to Deputy O'Callaghan's question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: There was a question to Ms Hegarty about sending on correspondences.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: That is good. I am waiting for Deputy Ó Murchú to return from the Dáil, but can we go back to the question Deputy O'Callaghan asked about apartments. The evolution-of-space graphic Ms Hegarty has is interesting and shows starkly where we were in 2020 in terms of apartment sizes. I have often heard statements that people do not want to buy or live in apartments. It is often...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: That is a fascinating aspect of this. We could talk about it for hours. I might come back to it in a while.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: About a minute, but we can probably do another round.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: I will come back when it goes round again, because we are now up to nearly 11 minutes for Deputy Ó Murchú. I will move to Deputy O'Donoghue. Then, I will take the second Green Party slot and then we will go into the third round. We will have time then for a couple of more questions. Deputy O'Donoghue if we keep it seven minutes then we all be happy.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: Can you provide the details to the Chair?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: It might be one of our working suggestions that we invite Housing Building Finance Ireland before the committee. Anything that we can do to add to the supply of housing and the financing of housing would be of benefit to all.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: I will take the next slot. This point leads me to return back to Ms Hegarty. Mel Reynolds attended the committee and spoke about the difficulties in second and third-storey refurbishments in terms of streamlining building regulations. This is not about reducing standards but about streamlining the process so that one does not have to go through three separate hoops and, if there is a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: At those committee sessions, we saw figures from UCD or Technological University Dublin - I cannot remember which did the research - suggesting that there were probably up to 4,000 units available between the canals in the upper second or third floors on commercial streets. Why has it not been done? If this were simple and affordable, it would have been done a long time ago. Are those...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: Many of those units would be ideal for the one- or two-bedroom housing that is in such demand. At one of our sessions, Mr. Odran Reid from Technological University Dublin said that it was not just about the quantum of units being brought back into the sector, but also the economic benefits that doing so would bring to towns and villages, restoring life and vibrancy to those that had been...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: I am sorry, but I have to interrupt Ms Hegarty because my time slot is up. Next is Deputy Ó Broin, followed by Deputy McAuliffe.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: We will move on to the third round of questions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: I apologise. I will have to leave it at that due to time. I will come in, followed by Deputy Ó Murchú. We have the last two slots left. I wish to go back to affordable apartments for purchase, such as apartments built to sell, obviously to a higher standard. We also want those apartments to be livable for life and be family-type apartments. We need to densify and we need...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: The attractiveness of the return on investment for build to rent is killing off anybody who wishes to construct build-to-sell family-sized apartments for people to live in long term. Of course, we will always need rental units, which are part of any normal housing system. What can we do to get more apartments built for build-to-rent for families?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: Sure, and for long-term rental as well.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: What would the impact be if we were to restore just one standard of apartments? If we do not have a build-to-rent standard or a build-to-sell standard, and go back to the higher build-to-sell standard, what would be the result of that in respect of supply and affordability? I know it is a hard one to answer.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: Ms Hegarty is indicating to come in on the same question.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: I believe that was Deputy Ó Broin's question. Please do.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government: Inflationary Costs in the Construction Industry: Discussion (28 Jun 2022)

Steven Matthews: I thank Ms Hegarty. I will call a halt to the meeting now as it is 6 o'clock. The initial meeting was to do with inflationary costs in construction. I think we covered a huge amount of ground in that regard. It has thrown up more questions for us that we must set out in our work themes from September onwards. We will have to return to this issue of costs in construction. I do not know...

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