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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: How do you match your roster of officers on duty to the peak demand? There is always the question of-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is the obvious question.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is a cliché but one often hears people say that on Saturday nights when there are many issues sometimes the gardaí are stretched, yet one sees plenty of them on Sunday morning when people are going to church. Does the Commissioner understand my point about the roster?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: That would be the key to utilisation of resources.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: There have often been reports about the CSO being unable to accept the reliability of figures that come from An Garda Síochána on various matters, that it cannot stand over them and often sends them back. Can you send us a note on any sets of information that the Garda is currently collecting and which the CSO is not satisfied to publish in its statistics? It is something we hear...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is not good for anybody if one cannot rely on the figures of the police force.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is an effort to bring improvement-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Representatives of the CSO have appeared before the committee. If something comes from the CSO there is unanimous acceptance of it. It would strengthen your work if your statistics had the CSO stamp as well.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I wish to raise a few matters from the accounts before us. Page 25 refers to compensation and legal costs. During the year in question the compensation awards were €9.8 million and the legal costs associated with that were almost two thirds of that figure at €6 million. There is a heading included that refers to civilian claims by members of the public arising from actions of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It could also be the case that perhaps there was an overhang of legal costs that just landed in that year. I do not know but there might be a reason for it. On the face of it, however, that is an isolated case that looks very bad. Ultimately, there is over 60% on top of the compensation awards that goes on legal costs. It is very high in comparison to other-----

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: You can send us an information note on it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am curious about something on page 13 in the accounts. This crops up quite often and we have queried it with the HSE. The Garda paid €6 million in advance for ICT skilled resources payments. Why pay so much in advance?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am concerned about that. The Garda is making a payment to an ICT company, probably one of the biggest companies in the world, that does not really need it. How do we know that we got delivery of the €6 million worth of product when it is prepaid? The witnesses may say there was a schedule of payments but this committee is getting very concerned about prepayments and advance...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Garda might send us a note in that regard about the €6 million. It relates to 2017. Was it contracted for delivery and received?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: A note will suffice. It is an issue that has cropped up in several meetings and it is not specific to the Comptroller and Auditor General. The next issue might require legislative change, which might be the answer. In one's local District Court, one will see 20 gardaí. Is it not possible for the station sergeant to give the evidence on behalf of all the station's gardaí,...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Harris might send us a note in that regard.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: If there is a legislative reason it cannot be done, that is our fault rather than the Garda's. I wish only to clarify the issue. People often find the following matter curious. The Garda received an income of €83,000, effectively as commission for collecting insurance premiums on behalf of insurance companies. Is that car insurance or something else? Why is the Garda collecting...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: We are happy with that. The figure jumps out at me. Perhaps somebody was charged with not paying insurance and handed the money to the Garda to pay over. It appears in the accounts every year but it is unusual. It is listed under income received by An Garda Síochána. The Garda might revert to us with a note in that regard. Does the Garda provide escorts for the movement of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Garda does not charge for it anymore.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 20 - An Garda Síochána
Chapter 7 - Management of Overtime Expenditure in An Garda Síochána
(9 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Why do the banks receive the service for free from the taxpayer to protect their money, given that they paid for it a couple of years ago? I accept the Garda's argument that there is a public interest in ensuring the money is not stolen, in case it makes its way into the wrong hands.

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