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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: -----and Mr. Walsh does not do it because he got legal advice to the contrary, regardless of why it got the legal advice, if it does not do that, that can be the subject of judicial review. Would Mr. Walsh agree?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: I will come back in Chair.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: Would Mr. Walsh give that legal advice in to the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: It is not private legal advice. An Bord Pleanála is a statutory body funded by the taxpayer that is absolutely -----

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: -----scandalously spending money frivolously for its own narrative.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: Developing a narrative that makes it legal post decisions.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: I would not say by any stretch that it is their legal advice. It is paid for by the taxpayer.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: And the committee should have it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: You can judicially review that, Mr. Walsh.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: I looked for decisions on the An Bord Pleanála website. I have never seen anything like how scant it is and yet Mr. Walsh says all the information is publicly available. The names of the inspector and the board member are included. There is a description of the case type, which might state "normal planning". There is a bare sentence for everything. There are references to split...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: Right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: We had that discussion. Mr. Doyle is the Secretary General of the Department. We have a Planning Regulator who is in direct conflict with Mr. Walsh's contention that there are no minimum densities.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: Will Mr. Walsh say that again?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: I am saying there are none.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: The issue is that there are no minimum densities in the guidelines, the specific planning policy requirements, SPPRs, the legislation or anywhere else. It is contended by the Planning Regulator, however, that there are such minimum densities. I spent 20 minutes on a Zoom call with the Planning Regulator who insisted there were such minimum densities but was unable to point me towards them...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: Does Mr. Doyle accept Mr. Walsh's contention that there are no minimum densities? It is here on the record from a committee meeting last year. Does Mr. Doyle accept that? It is on the record.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: There is not a recommended minimum density. There are no minimum densities.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: As a matter of fact, there are no references to minimum densities. They are not there. That is the whole point. They are not there. Several court decisions have stated we need clarity because the guidelines are ambiguous. We do not have that clarity. Does Mr. Walsh know what the minimum densities are?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: I did not ask what is the job of the board. I asked Mr. Walsh if he knows what the minimum densities are.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
An Bord Pleanála - Financial Statements 2020
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(14 Jul 2022)

Verona Murphy: In other words, there are no minimum densities. It is down to the local county council that is developing the county development plan in each area. It is not a matter for the regulator to tell them what to do. Is that not the case?

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