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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is why I am asking Mr. Barry this question. Will he elaborate on his knowledge of cases where this two-stage process or a variation thereof, with a contractor is on-site, has applied in the private sector? Are there contracts where the contractor was removed at stage 2? Is it normal in the private sector that, once the contractor gets on-site, then 99 times out of 100 the firm will...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: There we go.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: People can close the gate.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: You mentioned a couple of hours ago that you cannot take previous experience into account.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay. There is another general matter that cropped up years ago and will crop up again. Have you a mechanism to ensure that subcontractors are getting paid for the work? Ireland has been plagued with the problem of the guy who does the last part of the job not being paid and he probably does not even know who the main contractor is. You know what I am referring to.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: What type of mechanism do you have? How many will be working on this project at peak?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Many of those are individual small contractors who are way down the supply chain in terms of links with the main contractor. Will you discuss that? At the end of this we do not want to have a line of people saying they did not get paid. What can you do? I realise it is not easy but you must do something. As you know, subcontractors take a level of comfort from knowing that they are going...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Of course you did.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Curran wishes to speak. This is a big issue and it is relevant to the ordinary people working on the site.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: This was Department of Public Expenditure and Reform legislation.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I was possibly the party spokesperson on public expenditure and reform when it was brought through.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Minister of the day essentially put some of the blame on the subcontractors, saying they had left their debt outstanding for too long and should have moved earlier.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is, because they will not get a job again.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: As you are from the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform I will ask you to do me a favour. It has gone to the Department of Business, Enterprise and Innovation but will you ask your appropriate colleague to send a summary of that issue to me in layman's English? I can hand it out to the guy with the trailer and jeep who has two guys working with him on these sites. The country is...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Who owns Crumlin children's hospital?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is State property.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is no plan yet. It could end up being another facility for the health services.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: How many of the staff in Temple Street and Crumlin will move across to the hospital?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The staff in Crumlin will not just stay in Crumlin doing something different.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will conclude on that. I hope the staffing issue works well. Whether it is the finest children's hospital in the world has nothing to do with the architectural design and the cost but is about the staff and the medical care. Let us hope that aspect of it works out. I thank the witnesses from the National Paediatric Hospital Development Board, the Department of Health and the HSE for...

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