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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The board still received bad advice. Even if the outcome was always going to be always the outcome, it was still bad advice.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: No.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes, and that is my question. Why would the board continue to work with the company for the next couple of years?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Yes.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: And with BAM. Have we got ourselves so badly caught up in contracts that we cannot get away from bad advice?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: So it is here, regardless of whether we like it. What changes has it made in its organisation to give Mr. Barry a level of confidence that he clearly has not had in its work up to now.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: At this stage.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: However, six months or more have gone by.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I will put the blunt question, which is not unreasonable to ask. Should the entire board stand down? I am not saying that the project should be stopped but I must ask whether we have the right structure in place. We have the hospital board, steering committees, the HSE, the Department of Health, the Minister and then the Government. That is six steps down the line that responsibility is...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is a valid question.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am not making a recommendation, I am just posing a valid question

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay. This is about the fourth dilemma in which we have found ourselves at this stage. We are stuck where we are stuck. Given that all that is happening and that it took quite a period to do the maximum price guarantee-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I only put it as a question. How closely is the board monitoring the cost? I am not talking about cashflow and when it is certified. Are there monthly reports? What mechanism is in place when the contractor sees something that could require a change in design; in layman's English we call it an extra. Is the board getting reports on these every month or are we going to get another shock...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I understand that but has it been necessary to bring in any new software or is the internal audit function-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Barry aware of any cost increases on the project in the past six months since the completion of the GMP report in November?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: So he is on the ball.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: What is the process for clearing them off the decks? Do we just wait for a big whack at the end?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The obvious question that people watching this now want me to ask is: in the past six months, what has been the quantum of claims submitted by the builder? I acknowledge that Mr. Barry has accepted none of them. It will be four years before the hospital will be open. We are six months on from the fact finding of the GMP report. Six months have passed. The board is obviously on top of it...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: In the past six months.

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