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Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay, well then I should know that. When reading the annual report for the Department, I was bamboozled by all the different groups and different committees for this project and that. I lost track after about 50 or 60 of them. I just got lost with the names.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: If I am getting lost, that says something. What is the minimum staffing in a family resource centre? There must be a minimum scale of activity.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Therefore, three is the minimum.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Three is the basic minimum.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: They are not all quite there.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I think Mr. Lynch knows why I am speaking up for it. He gets the message; there was only one in my area. There is actually a second one there now. I have another issue directly related to what we were talking about, the cost of the people in residential care. How much is Tusla spending on placing people in care facilities in the UK per annum?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: How much more than the €300,000 would it be?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Without getting into any of the cases, because I do not want to, what are the criteria?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: The child is really moved on a court order then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: There is an obvious question. I know it is very difficult, but there have been issues about the place in the UK recently.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Tusla has contracted the lot of it out to the agency that does it in England. Why not contract it to a facility in Ireland instead? It is far more traumatic telling a 15 year old that they are being sent to England for two years.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Has Tusla looked at that? I know it is complicated and expensive. It might be cheaper to send them abroad.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: On behalf of children and the taxpayer, given that Tusla is paying €600,000 or €700,000, I ask Mr. Smyth to talk about the level of inspection, audit and verification in the treatment of the children. He knows I am talking about issues in the public arena.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am sure when they know Tusla is coming, everything is rosy.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is approximately €4 million to €5 million a year then.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: They would not be there for the full year in every case either.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Just so that we understand it, do they simply land or does the facility in England require them to go over to see if it thinks it is suitable to take them? Do persons from the facility in England come here to meet the children first? One cannot just say "They are gone". Can Mr. Smyth talk to me about how the child is deemed suitable from both sides?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Do not get into any specific details. The following is more of a public issue. There were problems in the past where gardaí felt there were credible reports of issues of concern regarding children in foster care in a family setting where those families had children of their own. How urgently does Tusla triage those cases now? Mr. Smyth probably knows the type of cases I am talking...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is that children in the house where the fostering is taking place?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 40 - Children and Youth Affairs
(13 Jun 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is good.

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