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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Please say that again slowly for the viewers.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The board did not get it right.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The board did not get the inputs right.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Where is the board on that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am going to get Mr. Barry to explain that last bit again. Is he saying it was going to cost more anyway?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: In other words, it was always going to cost €1.7 billion and as for the fact that we did not know about it, tough. Is that what Mr. Barry is saying?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: In other words, Mr. Barry is saying we were all led a merry dance, life is tough, there is no comeback and the project was always going to cost that amount if one built that?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: And the fact that we were all talking about lower figures, we were all being fooled collectively, the whole lot of us.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: And because we were the fools, we pay for it.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I am not finished with this topic.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is that design team still with the board?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: How could the board have absolute confidence in a design team that got this so wrong at this early stage and there are four more years to go?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is Mr. Barry saying that the PwC is kind of blaming the board rather than the design team? Is Mr. Barry saying the board does not have enough commercial experience within the board and it needs to beef up? I think the board needs to be strengthened and the PwC stated it needs to be strengthened.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would compare this with motorway projects that always cost more than the original quote, and Mr. Barry knows this. I know eventually that the authority got this-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: -----more right. Mr. Barry is saying the fact is the project was always going to cost €1.7 billion or whatever the figure is. The fact that nobody realised that, "Ah, sure".

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Who gave the original figure to the Minister and the Oireachtas of €700 million or whatever the figure was? In the PwC's report the original budget was €790 million and then the figure increased to €983 million in April 2017.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is the figure of €983 million in April 2017, which is on the first page of the PwC report.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Okay. So we came in with our tender in April 2017. The following year, not much before the end of 2018, the figure increased by €450 million, which is a 50% increase in 18 months. In April 2017 the figure was €983 million but in December, at the end of this report or at the end of the gross maximum price in November, which was 16 months later, the figure had increased by 50%....

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2017 (Resumed) (16 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: No.

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