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Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: We did not finish them and we are going to finish them. Work is proceeding on bringing them all to a conclusion because we had other chapters in the periodic report. What we will decide ourselves at our next meeting is whether we will launch them separately or together. If we launch them, it will take a couple of weeks to get it on the schedule so it will be towards the end of June one way...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: We will discuss that. I have outlined how I see the issue.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: That is the real issue. Yes, it will be launched well before. It will be June or thereabouts. The only issue we have to decide as a committee is whether to have two launches or one launch one week and another ten days later. That is a scheduling issue but the report will be there but we must decide whether it will stand-alone or be part of the other, which we will discuss among ourselves.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: No, not with that. On the capacity issue, we will try to bring our periodic report to cover the period up to the end of March. Aside from the major issues, whether it is broadband or the paediatric hospital, which we had been dealing with prior to that, the more recent meetings will fall to be completed over the summer for a periodic report, if we are back in September. We will generally...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Today we are dealing with appropriation accounts for 2017, Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance, and the finance accounts for 2017. We are also dealing with the Comptroller and Auditor Generals report for 2017, chapter 1, which deals with the Exchequer financial outturn for 2017, and Chapter 22, the Irish Fiscal Advisory Council. We are also dealing with the Comptroller and Auditor...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Thank you. I call Deputy Burke.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Will that figure give the position at the end of December 2018?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Deputy McSharry is next.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is the Department of Finance a party to the case?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The Department of Finance.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: The legal proceedings were initiated before that meeting.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Is the Department operating within the special legislation?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is not normal, company law.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Pardon.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Who did that? Was it the Oireachtas?

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: No. I would like to make one observation on that. It was rushed legislation and it does not provide for this. It is the law, but maybe it is something we or someone else in the Oireachtas will have to discuss.

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Probably what is being looked at here is that the legislation does not provide for a committee of inspection. The special liquidation passed by the Oireachtas was a major issue. The Department of Finance effectively stated that it would adopt a hands-on approach with this legislation and appoint a special liquidator, the Minister appointed him on 7 February 2013 and he commenced work a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: I would have stated on the previous occasion that I was shocked to hear how few were on the case now. Mr. Moran told us the Department had eight or nine staff when it started, but we are down to two staff now. Given the scale of this issue, we would expect the same level of scrutiny in this case by the Department as if it was done through the Companies Act in respect of a committee of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: It is not what one calls it. The usual practice is to use the Companies Act. We are aware the Oireachtas did something different here. The Oireachtas was probably entitled to believe that, because of the special circumstance, we would have the normal level of scrutiny but we would not call it a committee of inspection. I do not feel we have that. That is my observation. It is not a...

Public Accounts Committee: 2017 Annual Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 7 - Office of the Minister for Finance
Chapter 1 - Exchequer Financial Outturn for 2017
Chapter 22 - Irish Fiscal Advisory Council
(30 May 2019)

Seán Fleming: Mr. Moran can understand the point. He can understand the level of public frustration due to the lack of knowledge on where we are at.

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