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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: Let me deal with that if I can.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: I spoke to the Secretary General after Katherine texted me on 22 February asking for advice and an introduction to the United States Agency for International Development, USAID, which was clearly an organisation she wanted to work with. I did not respond to that text but I spoke to the Secretary General, as he confirmed to the committee last week. He is here again today if the Deputy wants...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: That is what she says when she said, "Thank you so so much for offering me this impressive opportunity-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: No, but I will ask Mr. Burgess to comment on that. I know Deputy Cowen cannot ask him questions directly but I think it would be helpful if he did because it is important to say that at no point did I discuss terms and conditions with Katherine Zappone. I specifically asked the Department to do that. If it is helpful, I can ask Mr. Burgess to confirm that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: First of all, Katherine Zappone was not and is not entitled to anything. Like any other former Minister, she must comply with legislation. This came about on the back of Katherine Zappone reaching out for some advice from me. I understand she spoke to the Minister for Finance late last year. He suggested she contact me because I am Minister for Foreign Affairs. She was clearly trying to...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: That was a matter for Katherine but in my view-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: I do not believe there was a conflict of interest. We were developing a concept around a special envoy role. I believe she was qualified for that job. It was a matter for Katherine to deal with any conflict of interest issues. I did not see any conflict of interest and I certainly did not get any advice from my officials to that effect.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: Do I have time in this exchange to ask Mr. Burgess to make a brief intervention regarding this issue?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: No, I did not because-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: As I have said, I do not believe she was breaching the legislation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: I had an informal conversation with the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, in late January or early February, from recollection. The only content of that conversation was that the Minister said I may get contact from Katherine Zappone with a view to taking advice relating to work in the UN in New York. That was it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: It was a phone conversation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: There are not. I do not even recall the exact date but it was early in the new year.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: No, there are not. There are records of the meeting.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: As I explained last week, it was a conversation in person that I had at the end of a meeting I had scheduled with Niall Burgess to talk about the appointment of ambassadors and our first two months on the UN Security Council. At the end of that meeting, I had a brief exchange on this issue. Niall Burgess responded positively to it and-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: It was an informal conversation, which is not unusual. The office of the Secretary General is below my office. I often speak to him in the evening.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: That was the first phone call I had with Katherine Zappone since the end of the previous summer. I had a missed phone call from her on 26 February, which is on the record. I responded to that - I rang her back and I had a conversation with her, first to say that I had no introduction to USAID but, second, that I had a conversation with the Secretary General regarding whether Katherine could...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: No, the Deputy is not right to say that. I have outlined the sequence of events as to what happened there. After the conversation on 26 February, Niall Burgess came back to me and told me the US was developing a special envoy role in the area of LGBT+ promotion and that he wanted to develop-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Foreign Affairs and Trade, and Defence: Appointment of Special Envoys: Minister for Foreign Affairs and Defence (7 Sep 2021)

Simon Coveney: Chairman, I want the opportunity to finish what I was saying.

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