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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: There will be a second round of questions if members want to come back in a second time. I call Deputy Ó Cathasaigh.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: The Secretary General wishes to come in.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: We will take a short ten-minute break. Following that, Deputy Burke will be the first member back in. Deputy Catherine Murphy will briefly take over as Chair because I have to attend a meeting of the Working Group of Committee Cathaoirligh, which the Taoiseach will attend.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: There will be a second round, if the Deputy wants to come back in again. I have some questions myself. I want to start with RTÉ. There were performance commitments that were linked to the revised strategy for 2024 that was presented to the Government four years ago to address some of the sustainability issues that RTÉ faces. There were six different commitments. Looking at...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I would absolutely discredit that, considering that RTÉ only achieved 40% of the targets. What controls, if any, did the Department put in place in case RTÉ failed to meet those commitments?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: It is Coimisiún na Meán that deals with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Does the media and broadcasting division within the Department engage with RTÉ around performance and budget monitoring?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: I do not want names, but who is Coimisiún na Meán? Is the commission attached to the Department or internal within the Department?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: In relation to the licence fee, a Supplementary Estimate was sought back in 2022. According to the figures I have here, it was in the region of €15 million, as I understand it. That was granted at the time. RTÉ has operated at a loss in five of the last six years. Income is down in the region of €100 million over a six-year period and costs are up €30 million in...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Will there be a Supplementary Estimate this year? Has one not been sought?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Given the figures that indicate that RTÉ is running at a loss, the fact there was a Supplementary Estimate last year and there has been no increase in the licence fee, is one expected?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: On the 50 recommendations of the Future of Media Commission, I understand that changes to the licence fee and the methods of collection were central to the recommendations. Has that proposal been shelved?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: This has been looked at a number of times over the years.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: This has been going around for as long as I have been here and I am sure the generation before me looked at it as well. I know this is a policy matter and I do not want to go there but from an official point of view and from the point of view of Ms Licken's work with the Department, is the plan to deal with this issue this year? Is the Department working to or has it been asked to work to...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Of course; I understand that.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: Is the Department working on the basis that it is a now-or-never thing and that it will happen this year?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: How much?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: The gap is being funded by direct subvention at the moment. Last year, we had a Supplementary Estimate. Does Ms Licken have concerns about the situation I outlined in which RTÉ has run a deficit in five of the last six years? The organisation's income is down by in the region of €100 million over a six-year period, costs have gone up by approximately €30 million, the...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: My concern is that between the Department, Coimisiún na Meán and the board of RTÉ things could move and everybody is responsible but no one is responsible. I am not saying that is the base but Ms Licken will know herself the way it works with different organisations when more people are responsible. That is not an argument against it and I understand why they are there....

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 33 - Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funding
(22 Jun 2023)

Brian Stanley: The total figure for the licence fee was €194 million. Is that correct?

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