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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: The report contains two categories, one of which is divided into two further subcategories. There are risks that can be controlled, and there are risks over which the board has some influence and risks over which the board has no control. Since Mr. Barry joined the board, have risks in either of the latter two subcategories been elevated beyond what was outlined in the report?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is clear. Was the loss of the chief procurement officer from the management team board a setback?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: I appreciate that. I am not asking about the individual. I will restate my question in case Mr. Barry needs more time to answer it. Was the loss of the chief procurement officer of Ireland, who is based in the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform and is no longer on the board, a loss to the project?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: I will ask the question a third time. I have not named the individual. Was the loss of the chief procurement officer, a significant position in the country, to the project, which is the largest in the country's history? I refer to the person's expertise, whoever he or she is, given that he or she was ultimately the person in charge of the project.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am not asking Mr. Barry to address the qualities of any individual. Mr. Barry turned the question. I do not want him to address the quality of the individual, whom I do not know. Rather, I want him to address the loss of the role and all it brings. It has a role in the State and was put on the board for a specific purpose, but it is no longer on the board. It will be strange if Mr....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: I have now made four attempts. I note to the committee that Mr. Barry effectively refused to answer a question on the loss of the expertise of the role - not the individual - to the board. He effectively refused to state it was a loss. That is now public.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: Let us get this right. It was not a confrontational question. Trust me, I will have some such questions later and we are only starting. Mr. Barry has been around the block before Oireachtas committees for years and I have dealt with him on many occasions. I must acknowledge that he is good when he appears before committees and is clear and concise in his answers. I accept that the role...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is not helpful that guests appear before the committee and refuse to answer legitimate questions. I take it as a refusal to answer.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: I accept that, but the public are watching. I turn to the guaranteed maximum price, GMP. I know what it is, Mr. Barry knows what it is, and the public are now becoming familiar with the term. I listened to his responses to my colleagues earlier. According to pages 26 to 28, inclusive, of the PwC report, the GMP will be based on the design team's assertions with 95% cost certainty. Is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is interesting that footnote 30 on page 28 states: Stage 2C Design commenced in July 2016. We note that as of the date of this report, the Stage 2C report has yet to be approved by NPHDB. Has it been approved since?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: When?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: On what date?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: In which month?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: It could not be March.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: To clarify, in order that we do not get our wires crossed, the PwC report was published in April. How could the stage 2C design have been approved in March?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: It does not fill me with confidence that Mr. Devine does not know the date. It is an important matter.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: Is the GMP not in place?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: This is interesting. A GMP is in place but, according to what Mr. Devine stated, the stage 2C report cannot be signed off because it will influence the GMP.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am just trying to tease out what Mr. Devine is saying. He is confusing people.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: Update on Construction of National Children's Hospital: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board (27 Nov 2019)

Alan Kelly: Let us find out. He does not know the date.

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