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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: You were flying.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am sorry for breaking your stride.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: Head 38(1) concerns the office's ability to initiate and conduct investigations on its own initiative or on the basis of a complaint. I will take the first part first and the reference to the office's "own initiative". This also goes back to the earlier point. What capacity and power does the office have to conduct have to conduct investigations on its own initiative? Is the Minister...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: How many times have those powers been used to date?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: Those are precisely the same powers that will be conferred on the new body.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: On the basis of a complaint then and from some of the submissions we received, there are concerns is respect of head 38(3)(b). It states, "Other organisations that have a legitimate interest in representing suppliers shall have the right to submit complaints". Does that exclude individuals, for example, an individual farmer, from making a complaint under that article? It appears it will...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: The Minister is saying that also relates to individuals, under head 38(3).

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: Yes. The Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, CCPC, and the IFA have made submissions and drawn attention to confidentiality being particularly important. Is that a shortcoming, in the Minister's view? This is in respect of head 38(4).

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: I move to head 38(5)(a) that provides the office can decide not to investigate complaints it considers frivolous or vexatious. Going back to my earlier question, if I contacted the office and said I think a cartel is operating in the meat factories, would the Minister consider that to be vexatious or a legitimate complaint? I refer to the new office rather than the Minister personally.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: I accept that. The definition is important.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: The submissions requested that it be strengthened rather than undermined, so the default position would be that the complainant's identity would not be publicised-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: -----or given to the person the complaint is being made against, unless there was a good reason for the office to do that. It would strengthen that position. My question was about whether we could look at that. This issue comes on the back of a submission from the Irish Farmers' Association. Head 38(9) states, "Where the Office considers that there are insufficient grounds for acting on a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: As it is currently worded, it states that the complainant should be informed. A farm organisation has requested the inclusion of the words "in writing". Can that be considered?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: I presume there is a particular reason tat a farm organisation has raised that. It arises on the back of its experience.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: A couple of points have been raised already. There was quite a bit of discussion of the groceries order. Up until the last 12 months of the life of that order, there were few complaints about it. It was driven by a high-profile campaign and the Minister at the time abolished it. Members may recall hearing me say on numerous occasions that I was so disappointed with this regulation at a...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: That might be the case if the price is static but, since the abolition of the groceries order, the proportion of income spent on food has diminished greatly. Part of the reason for that is the abolition of the groceries order. To my mind, it could certainly be-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: This relates to the head of the Bill and the practices that are being banned. The concept of fresh food has been devalued because a person can sometimes buy a head of lettuce for 8 cent. Other vegetables can be very cheap if they are bought in the right place at the right time. There is much anecdotal evidence to suggest that when those types of sales are run, including of dairy products...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: Concerns have been expressed in some of the submissions we have received. The IFA has expressed concern that its members have encountered different definitions about perishables and whether it relates to 30 days or might be extended to 60 days. I do not know if the Minister has seen that submission and whether he can address that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: That was a submission to our committee. Okay. Does the Minister understand the context of the question or the general point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Department of Agriculture, Food and the Marine (29 Jun 2022)

Matt Carthy: Yes. I expect this is in the sale or returns element.

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