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Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: If that person were mentioned in the letter or disclosure or whatever, is he or she an appropriate person to take the decision?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Does it not?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: That is very unusual, is it not?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: If I were to make a protected disclosure against Deputy Kelly and if he were to make the decision as to the validity or otherwise of that protected disclosure, would that be reasonable?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: It is a subjective approach that can be taken.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: One has the benefit of protections in terms of legal recourse-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: -----but as to who decides it is a protected disclosure, it now seems clear from what Mr. Beausang is saying that a person who could be implicated, or not, by that protected disclosure is the one who determines whether, in fact, it is a protected disclosure.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Let us say Deputy Kelly was the subject of a protected disclosure made by me and was the person who had to decide whether it was a protected disclosure-----

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Who is in the third-party process? Who refers the matter on?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I am using my colleague here as the example because I do not want to be personal. If I work for Deputy Alan Kelly and I make a protected disclosure that involves him, how is it appropriate for him to decide unilaterally that there is nothing in the disclosure?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Absolutely. That is exactly what I am asking Mr. Beausang about. How can an institution have any input into the validity or otherwise of, or the processes around, the assessment and investigation?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Would Mr. Beausang not do so?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: In the interests of the institution.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Let us go back through this case. First, we have what seems to correspond with the 2012 draft disclosures policy in CIT. We have established that a letter was received and that it was not seen as a disclosure. The president, on 17 June last year, said, "No, we never received any disclosures." Mr. Gallagher has said that was the case. He has said it here again. However, now we see...

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I am speaking generally. To be honest, this is a new disclosure. I did not know anything about this disclosure until today.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: However, how appropriate is it for it to make accusations against the people who are running it?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: In fairness to Mr. Beausang, who has a corporate governance structure that could be identified as such and that allows the body to have plenipotentiary status over accusations against itself?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: I do not know the subject of any of these things.

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: Would that have been the case with the anonymous letter as well?

Public Accounts Committee: Financial Statements 2016: Higher Education Authority, University College Cork and Cork Institute of Technology (24 May 2018)

Marc MacSharry: How independent was that process?

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