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Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Mr. Barry made a comment which I will have to follow up on. I did not on that day because I thought I would research it a bit more, which is the appropriate thing to do. He said that the design was almost agreed for the GMP but there were a few small things relating to the IFC. He might explain what the IFC is and the difference between that and the GMP.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: In layman's terms, is this a more detailed GMP?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: That is very well explained. When the GMP was signed off, the IFC was, give or take-----

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I know. Did the IFC in any way retrospectively affect the GMP?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: If ever a question is going to be asked about this hospital, I believe that one is critical. It is the nub of this issue.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: There is a big difference between the IFC and GMP.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: The contractors have an opinion that there is a big difference between the IFC and GMP.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Okay. Mr. Barry does not agree with it.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Okay, fair enough. On behalf of the taxpayer I hope Mr. Barry is right.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: On behalf of the taxpayer, I hope Mr. Barry is right but there is a credibility issue here. If it ends up being determined that the IFC cost was considerably away from the GMC, we will incur serious costs. In any project that would be correct, would it not?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I cannot correlate how, then, we ended up with a 63% uplift in payments to the design companies. According to this report, €27 million extra was paid to design companies, which is 63% more than what was agreed. In any correlation if we go from the GMP to the IFC cost - and I am sorry for all of the jargon but people who know this know what I am talking about and there are arguments...

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Which was way out, obviously.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Is it not way out?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Can I ask a question though? Is it way out?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I am sorry. Tone is an issue here. Is it way out or not?

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: I do not agree but go on.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is Mr. Devine's opinion.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: It is all in the report, in fairness.

Public Accounts Committee: National Paediatric Hospital Development Board: Financial Statements 2018 (5 Dec 2019)

Alan Kelly: Scope changes.

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