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Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Would those detailed reports imply where and how the money is being spent? Do they provide disaggregated data about the type of person who is in receipt of HAP.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I would appreciate that. I am particularly interested in whether we have good and timely data around, for example, the number of people with disabilities receiving HAP. By those with disabilities, I mean people in receipt of some kind of social welfare payment relating to disability. I am also interested in the number of children in receipt of HAP and the timeliness of the receipt of that...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I am interested in the private provision of emergency accommodation.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Could Ms Timmons return with that information? I am particularly interested in the implementation of the service level agreements, SLAs, with private service providers. We have dealt with it at the Committee of Public Accounts before. The question was whether the Department or anybody related to it required under the SLAs that staff members in privately provided emergency accommodation be...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: What is the definition of "directly"?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Let us say, for example, cleaning staff.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: If somebody is living somewhere, cleaning staff would usually have access to people in that place. How about security?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Is Ms Timmons' position that she has no data on compliance regarding whether people providing homeless services are Garda vetted?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Can Ms Timmons ask and provide that to the committee?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: If Ms Timmons also came back with the number of new beds that are coming in privately provided services, that would be useful.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I presume the information we have been given relates to the Covid period, so 2020 and 2021.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Good morning everyone. I will start with the governance structures for the housing assistance payment, HAP, as outlined under chapter 8 of the document we have been given. I am not sure to whom I am addressing this question. I had to also attend the Joint Committee on Disability Matters this morning. The tender won by Limerick City and County Council, LCCC, was very helpfully outlined, as...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Yes. It is about governance structure.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I have quite a number of questions I want to get through. I am trying to get a sense of the DRHE's role in relation to LCCC.

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Maybe I will go to my questions, because we have the overview in the information provided to the committee. Perhaps someone can give me an answer to my question on the DRHE when ready. The HAP oversight group met on six occasions in 2015 and met less often as the years went on it. The information provided states it met twice in 2020. How often did it meet in 2021?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Since when?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: In 2021, before quarter 4, how often did the existing oversight group meet?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I take Ms Stapleton's point in that during the changeover from one system to another system, HAP, there is more work at the beginning of the process than at the end. However, when the scheme was introduced in 2014, €400,000 was spent on it and €423 million was spent on it in 2019. It seems we are providing one third of the oversight in that process. I note, from the...

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: I take that point Ms Stapleton, but in the context of going from €400,000 to €423 million, I suggest that is not a stable environment. Is it not?

Public Accounts Committee: 2020 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
(17 Feb 2022)

Neasa Hourigan: Did that oversight group, in the period between 2014 and quarter 3 of 2021, raise any significant concerns with the Department? Has it made any report or taken the kind of actions one would expect an oversight body to take, such as raising concerns about specific issues?

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