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Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can Mr. Doyle give us a list of what the Department has tested from a value for money perspective?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can we see those?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: To see where there is an assessment of value for money and what the methodology is.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It would be useful to see that because, to be honest, regarding some of this stuff, including these enhanced leases, it is very difficult to see where you could possibly look at that from a value for money perspective and come to the conclusion that there is value for money so let us have a look at those. I have a question about the local government fund, something about which I routinely...

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Complex is an understatement.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Would Ms O'Gorman accept that you cannot double your population and not provide the resources to go with that?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Will this be completed in time for the budget this year?

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: That will be for next year.

Public Accounts Committee: Appropriation Accounts 2021
Vote 34 - Housing, Local Government and Heritage
Local Government Fund Account 2021
2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General
Chapter 4: Re-allocation of Voted Funds
Chapter 6: Central Government Funding of Local Authorities
Chapter 7: The Housing Agency’s Revolving Acquisition Fund
(26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can I correct Ms O'Gorman on one thing? It was not 2014. In fact, it goes back to the needs and resources model, which would have taken account of the census of 1996 as opposed to a more recent census. There is no reason why this could not be reviewed even using the 2016 census. It could then have been amended and it should be amended at each census.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: City of Dublin Education and Training Board has a big budget – €564 million. Therefore, the amounts we will be talking about are relatively small in terms of overall expenditure. I acknowledge that and certainly do not want to diminish the very good work done. The figure for audiovisual equipment is €240,000, that for cleaning contracts is €259,000, that for...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: We now have the additional information. Is it correct that the overall body that co-ordinates the ETBs is based in Naas?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Is there a mechanism for doing procurement for all of the ETBs through that body?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Okay.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: On the review referred to in the first sentence, instead of the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform trying to convene the various interested parties, the approach that appears to have been adopted looked at individual organisations, units of Government or Departments in isolation. I think that was a test that almost predetermined the outcome. We saw that the Central Statistics...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: The Indecon report stated that if the service was to be dispensed with-----

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: -----there should be something in place beforehand. Now we have a vacuum of information and obviously the CSO, for example, will be relying on the information it had from that source for several years. However, at some point, the information will not be accepted by EUROSTAT. Then there is the cost involved. I cannot get my head around the way this was handled.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I know something about this issue. It relates to a facility that was to be built for students. A levy was collected for a considerable period and then increased. Students agreed to pay it in return for getting this facility. When the contract was awarded and work had started, it was discovered that the costs exceeded the original contract amount. I do not know how the tender system...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: On the next page of the document, regarding the next steps, it is stated that following the decision of the governing authority to terminate the contract for the construction of the student centre, a student facilities project advisory group was established to make recommendations to the governing authority on the development of student facilities for the immediate, medium and longer term....

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (26 Jan 2023)

Catherine Murphy: The levy had a definite purpose. It is being mentioned that little pods will be put in here and there and outside seating and that kind of stuff. The university has grown and there have been some great additions made to it to date. The number of students has increased in recent years from approximately 5,000 to about 15,000 now. Student facilities should be improving as the institution...

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