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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: This is not a micro-issue. More than a third of people in this country use home heating oil to heat their homes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: These householders do not get direct support to heat their homes.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: There was no direct support from the Government for 37% of households to heat their homes. The argument I have consistently made is that for people who use gas to heat their homes, there was a measure to support them. The Minister referred to micro-issues. A situation in which 37% of households do not have any direct support to heat their homes is not a micro-issue. That situation applies...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: There is a measure that benefits those who heat their homes by gas. There is no piped gas in my county of Donegal. There is not an inch of pipe in it. It does not exist. Even if people wanted to use gas, they could not do it. A total of 37% of households right across the board were left out of a policy decision to reduce the cost of heating homes. A policy decision was taken that was...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: As the mover of the amendment, I will finish on this point. The amendment is very clear. It is about reducing to zero mineral oil tax on home heating oil until the end of October in the middle of a cost-of-living crisis. The Minister talked about measures he is taking. I am not taking away from him on that but, on top of that, the Government also reduced the cost for households,...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Section 2 contains the staggered increase of petrol and diesel. The reduction will be phased out and by the end of October the price will be higher than what it was before the reduction because the Government plans to increase both types of fuel with an increase in mineral oil tax come budget time. That is legislated for in the Schedule. We have seen fluctuations in petrol and diesel and...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Although we tabled no amendments, the section deals with reducing VAT rates to electricity, gas and the hospitality and tourism sectors. I spoke at length regarding the inequality of having a measure for those who use gas primarily, and nothing for those who use home heating oil, so I will not repeat myself. We see from a reply to a parliamentary question that while the projected cost of...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Every country across Europe is in that same position, where their energy companies, given what has happened in the wholesale markets, will want to see the suppliers reduce costs for consumers. In Germany, the Netherlands, Austria, France and Poland, and countries like that, it is really important for them because what they are doing is subsidising the difference between the lower cost that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Of course the Minister did.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Of course it can.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Let me just deal with this issue of costs. The Minister has made reference to this, so he knows well that energy suppliers hedge and buy in advance. When we met with some of the energy companies they told us they buy eight or nine months in advance. At the start of the invasion of Ukraine, we met with the energy companies and the regulator and they made the same point. They told us that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, if energy were to spike as far as the upper limits for every business.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Yes, but if energy prices increased to the point that every business hit the cap, what would it cost? I think it would cost in the region of €25 billion.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Not with this Minister.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: With respect, I am speaking.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The scheme would cost in the region of €25 billion. I would never argue that the Government has brought forward a scheme that had a price tag of €25 billion. The price tag was €1.2 billion. The reason is there were assumptions built into it with regard to the likely cost, by looking at where energy prices are. We know that TBESS did not cost a fraction of that. Only...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister's colleague said that is not how it works.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: I thank the Minister for that.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: Can I clarify one thing? The Minister stated that he accepts the Department's advice that the rate should go back up. Was the Department's advice that the reduced rate should not be extended?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Finance Bill 2023: Committee Stage (29 Mar 2023)

Pearse Doherty: The Minister will know in a minute. My view is clear.

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