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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Regarding the CCPC's engagement, Mr. McHugh spoke about multiple parties. How many meat processors did the CCPC engage with at that time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: How many did the CCPC sit down with as part of that investigation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: It relates to this legislation and how it pertains to the work the CCPC is currently doing. I am coming to the substantive point.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: However, as part of this investigation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: To summarise, essentially what happened is the CCPC received numerous complaints, mostly from individuals, expressing the belief that factories were operating in a collaborative manner outside the law. As they could not provide the CCPC with evidence of that collaboration, the CCPC was not in a position to pursue it. However, it did not even go to the factories and ask why their prices were...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Mr. McHugh is, and he is not answering the question I am asking. To be clear, as part of the investigation into the allegations that factories are operating in a collaborative manner, and some would argue a cartel-like manner, the CCPC did not actually engage with the factories or their representative organisation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: For any investigative body, it would not be unusual for it to go and ask a person regarding whom allegations had been made to answer to those allegations, but the CCPC did not.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: However, Mr. McHugh said the CCPC did start an investigation and had a year-long investigation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am coming to the point. Head 38 of the new Bill on the UTP enforcement body in Part 1 says the office may initiate and conduct investigations on its own initiative or on the basis of a complaint. That is very similar to the remit the CCPC has. Is that right? There is very similar language used.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Yes, but in terms of the language that is used, it is very similar.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Mr. McHugh is saying it is his view that if a complaint is made in respect of cartel-like behaviour, collaboration or any of these issues to this new body, it will have no authority to initiate an investigation on the basis of that complaint.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: No, in terms of the question I have put to Mr. McHugh.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: That appears to be different from the interpretation the Minister had in response to the same question last week. We might follow up on that. Will Mr. McHugh outline how the chair and the members of the CCPC board are appointed at present?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: There are no criteria other than-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: The CCPC advocated in its submission that it believes the window for prosecution, for want of a better term, should be expanded from two to three years. Will Mr. McHugh indicate how strongly the CCPC feels about that and why?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: I am conscious that others want to get in. I can come back in at the end if there is time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: I thank Mr. Dillon for being here. I am trying to get a sense of the context in which Retail Ireland has approached the Bill. Does the organisation accept or believe there was a need in the first place for UTP legislation as has been enacted at EU level?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Is it fair to say the organisation would consider its role to be to ensure the powers and scope of the new enforcement authority are limited?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: I will ask the question in a different way. Is there any area in the powers and scope outlined in the proposed legislation we are discussing regarding the heads of the Bill where Retail Ireland sees scope or space for expansion at this time?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Agriculture, Food and the Marine: General Scheme of the Agricultural and Food Supply Chain Bill 2022: Discussion (6 Jul 2022)

Matt Carthy: Essentially Retail Ireland's role in engaging with us and with the Bill is to limit it to within the parameters of EU law within which we are bound to operate.

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