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Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I am sorry but I have very little time. I will ask the Comptroller and Auditor General.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It is about the damage to people.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I have very little time. I need to have a response.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Chair, can we manage the time a little bit here?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It is just to have transparency and to have the early reporting. If issues of damage minimisation are flagged at an early stage, we might actually see a system in place. We could have the same problem arising in one particular location repeatedly. If we do not have that full overview, we are not getting to the origin of the problem. Is that happening?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It would have been self-evident there should have been a system for damage minimisation, without even the need for the legislation. Is this happening because there is an increase in the financial liability? Is that what has prompted this? What was the purpose of not having this in place all along?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I wish to return to the issue of the considerable contingent liability and the reply I got to parliamentary questions. I refer to a question from 2018. The Minister for Further and Higher Education, Research, Innovation and Science, Deputy Harris, would have been Minister for Health at the time. Would the Department stand over the reply that I received? We need transparency in all of...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It was looked at by Mr. Watt's colleague during the break. The Comptroller and Auditor General looked at it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: We can see them crystallising on the steps of the courts. On the other matter, cost containment was one of the key issues referred to repeatedly in the Comptroller and Auditor General's report. There is delay-and-deny potential with some of this. It is a matter of trying to have transparency. If Mr. Watt is not in a position to answer, the Comptroller and Auditor General might answer on...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It is not right.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It is completely wrong, and Mr. Watt knows it.

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Mr. Watt says they crystallise each year but I am told there was no crystallisation over the past ten years. How can that be anything other than wrong?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Can I ask the Comptroller and Auditor General about the matter?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: On transparency, I am trying to make sense of this. That was my motivation for asking the parliamentary questions at the time. Having regard to transparency, Mr. McCarthy has had an opportunity to see the parliamentary question responses. Would he regard the information, particularly the last paragraph, as correct in terms of how it makes its way into the accounts and the impact it would have?

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: It was a subject that the previous iteration of this committee paid some attention to. The conflation of cost containment and the public interest was something we saw in the document the Attorney General presented. Presumably, that is the same approach as that taken where there are cases of significant injury. The biggest cost in regard to the €4.5 billion concerns damage from...

Public Accounts Committee: 2021 Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General and Appropriation Accounts
Vote 38 - Health
Chapter 12 - Financial Impact of Cyber Security Attack
(9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: People walk out of the courts and say no amount of money would compensate them. There are lives that could have been very different. There will always be a cohort who suffer from the kind of damage in question but I am concerned about the legal approach taken to open disclosure when something happens and how it sits with the kind of advice that was given by the Attorney General. The...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Regarding the terms of the exit package, the correspondence states that it was mutually agreed by the board of the IHRB and the former CEO that the terms of the CEO's retirement would be kept confidential in the interests of discretion and in light of the sensitivity of the situation. How is this reflected in the accounts? Where does it fit into the financial statements?

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: In the normal course of events, it would be transparent.

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: I find this unsatisfactory. Several of us raised the issue of misleading advertising. The public certainly would read this situation very differently from the way the regulator read it. In this correspondence, we are being asked to note that it is open to the committee to make a complaint about the relevant advertising. The ASAI could then investigate that complaint in accordance with the...

Public Accounts Committee: Business of Committee (9 Feb 2023)

Catherine Murphy: Regarding the number of premises passed, it is not possible to make people connect.

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