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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: For the customers of the bank who had deals with it, was there any stage, given that it was prepared to take 60% of the overall debt, when the bank contemplated writing to those people to ask them whether anybody belonging to them was in a position to get his or hands on that type of money in the full and final settlement?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Is it a better outcome if people lose their house down the road than if a family or somebody else can help them when they are going for a loan that costs 33% more?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: From what I heard earlier, Mr. Masding said the Minister for Finance and the Department of Finance gave the bank the go-ahead to take this approach.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Was there any objection from the Minister for Finance?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I am asking a simple question. Was there any objection from the Minister for Finance or his Department to the loans being sold on?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: There are people who entered an agreement with the bank that requires six payments before they receive their overall decision on the length of time or the agreement that will be put in place. How does that stand? Who will make a decision on it? Is it Mr. Ryan or Permanent TSB? In June or July, people were told that if they made six payments, they would get a deal for whatever length of...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I turn to selling houses, because I happen to be selling a house with a distressed mortgage. The committee was told that to get agreement after the bank announced the sale of the loans, the seller had to seek agreement from the buyer of the loan. Is that correct?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: It is a simple question. Project Gloss will work the same way in six months' time.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: If somebody was negotiating with the bank for a loan because he or she was selling a house, before it fully goes through a few months later, which is how long it takes, who will make the decisions? Before the bank takes the price that is offered for the house, is there an obligation on the bank to contact Mr. Ryan? We will work on this question since Mr. Masding does not wish to work on the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: So Pepper would be making the final decision.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: The word "consult" has been used again. Everyone is being consulted, but who is making the decision?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: I would like to ask Mr. Ryan for clarification about the agreements that are to be reviewed in three years. If the incomes and standard financial statements are the same, will Pepper be willing to continue with those agreements until the loans are finished?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: The Chairman and I are used to dealing with different banks and vulture funds in various situations. The witnesses will be familiar with different names like Capita and Promontoria. I would like Mr. Ryan to explain something to me. What is the chain when a public representative who is representing someone who may be in financial difficulty talks to Pepper? Is Pepper a middle man like...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Yes.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: We would deal with Pepper.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: We are getting letters about the mortgage to rent scheme at the moment. A person who is eligible for social housing is obviously eligible to participate in the scheme in a distress scenario. At the moment, councils in one county - we are waiting on others - are writing to people to tell them that even though they are eligible for mortgage to rent and for social housing, and even though they...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Who is going to pay? Did Mr. Ryan hear what I said about the councils?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: The councils have written to the housing bodies to say they think certain properties are too rural. Obviously, they do not want to cough up to assist these people, even though they are eligible for social housing. What will Pepper's medicine be in such circumstances?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Sale of Permanent TSB Mortgage Loans: Discussion (6 Dec 2018)

Michael Fitzmaurice: Yes.

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