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Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: May I correct the Deputy?

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: I find it very difficult to dispute Deputy Seamus Healy's description of these provisions as "anachronistic" and "inhumane". However, the Minister made an important point when he said this section continued the criminalisation of women already provided for in law rather than introducing a criminal sanction. There is a difference. Deputy Michael McNamara is absolutely correct in his...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: That is it. There is a section 7 certificate or a section 9 certificate.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: No.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: Even though what has been suggested here is not a lawyer but an advocate - I think Deputy Ó Cuív touched on this earlier when he mentioned a medical advocate or an advocate of some kind, rather than a lawyer, which is fair enough - it is still importing an adversarial approach into the clinical environment we are talking about. Our legal system is adversarial. In order for...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: We cannot know that.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: Yes.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: In an individual case.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: The principles that apply which we went through are the same as those that apply generally in medical negligence cases. As regards the care required to be taken in the clinical environment, as long as that is taken and the generally accepted standards of the profession are applied by a doctor in a given instance, as long as he or she applies in good faith the test set down in the...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: In what way? If someone has a better proposal as to how this can be done, he or she can tell us what it is now and we can consider it. As regards saying we would review it, under the Constitution one cannot have a sunset clause in legislation. One either passes legislation by voting for it or one does not. The other thing about it is that what the Oireachtas enacts, it can repeal at some...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: I am afraid I missed that suggestion.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: I agree absolutely. That is the position.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: I wish to refer to a number of the points raised, including that of the potential liability on the State.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: I missed the beginning of Deputy O'Donnell's question. I hope I have got the right question, but this is the answer.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: I will be quick in that regard.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: I think that was an Article 26 reference to the Supreme Court to test the constitutionality of legislation. That would be representation appointed by the Chief Justice to argue for the unborn as a class, not the interests of a particular unborn. It sounds like a crass differentiation, but Deputy O'Donnell will know what I mean. That was to deal with legislation and the same argument cannot...

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: That would be to test the constitutionality of a Bill where the lawyers are appointed by the Chief Justice only for the purpose of making that argument.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: What is being advocated here is a representative for an individual actual unborn. In response to Deputy Shortall,-----

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: Okay.

Committee on Health and Children: Select Sub-Committee on Health: Protection of Life During Pregnancy Bill 2013: Committee Stage (Resumed) (3 Jul 2013)

Alex White: There are many questions that we can pose on this, but what the Government and the Oireachtas must do ultimately is come up with answers. Deputy Shortall's question was about how the doctor was to make the call. This was the dilemma she reasonably posited. Our answer to that is contained in the legislation. That is the answer to the question. With respect to Deputy Shortall, I would ask...

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