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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: ----- which is why I have made very clear to the Deputy, and I will do so again, that a fundamental element of the relationship the State has with banks is that we have to respect their commercial independence. Two banks have already left our country. We hope the three banks we have will be sustainable and will meet the needs of our economy in the years to come. Any sense at all that I can...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Contact was happening across this period.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am sorry to disappoint the Deputy again because I have made clear to him that conversations were happening. I understand that Mr. Colin Hunt acknowledged this in his testimony to the committee. He made it clear that contact had happened.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: That contact happened. The decision was reversed.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Whatever I did, or never do, it will never be enough for the Deputy. The key point is-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: If I am ever in a position where I surprise the Deputy with the extent of the decision I have made, I will have to consider whether I have made the right decision. As I said, the key thing is that the decision was reversed. I have been very clear in acknowledging that contact happened between my Department and the bank to make sure it was aware of the public reaction that was under way....

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is clear-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy knows that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Deputy Doherty might allow me to conclude the different points we have made here. First, I was very clear in being very careful to say it is up to the banks themselves to assess the impact on their reputations. As the Deputy well knows, the decision here has been reversed. If I was sitting in front of Deputy Doherty and my Department had not made contact with the bank-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy keeps on saying that but I keep saying back to him that I know this is-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----for social media videos.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Let me be clear in repeating for the final and umpteenth time to the Deputy that while some discussions may have been happening with regard to speaking points in order that we were fully aware of what was happening and what the bank was saying, equally, at the same time, my officials contacted the bank to first acknowledge its independence but also make sure it was fully aware of the public...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: There Deputy Doherty goes again. On one hand, he deliberately confuses the role that I have as the shareholder and on the other hand, surely, he knows-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy might let me finish answering his question. Surely, he knows that is a decision for the regulator. Does he not know that? It is a decision for the Central Bank of Ireland to determine that, not me.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: As I indicated to the Deputy and to the Dáil in an answer on this matter some weeks ago, my Department had papers regarding an AIB board meeting shared with us on 29 June. On 1 July, an official in my Department was made aware of this. Officials met AIB in relation to the normal engagement that we have with them. I became aware of this matter on Tuesday, 19 July.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The comments the Taoiseach made were entirely appropriate. He was commenting publicly on the matter. He was asking the banks to be aware of this decision and the consequences of it, but he was not directing them to do it.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----or maybe he is not; I have to keep reminding him of this. An unfortunate truth for Deputy Doherty and Sinn Féin is that as the majority shareholder in a bank, we are still not involved in making commercial decisions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I know Deputy Doherty is just looking for content-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Banking Issues: Discussion (Resumed) (21 Sep 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am sorry to have to inform the Deputy of this. I would have thought, as a long-standing and distinguished member of the committee, that he would be aware of that fact. It is the Central Bank of Ireland that determines it. The Central Bank is intensively engaging with Ulster Bank with regard to its withdrawal.

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