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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: I am not. Mr. McGarr raised the issue of restrictions.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Mr. McGarr is dealing with commercial leases every day of the week.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Does Mr. McGarr not deal with commercial leases?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Does Mr. McGarr not have expertise in commercial leases?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: No, the question I asked is whether Mr. McGarr has expertise in commercial leases.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: A 299-year lease is being granted in this case. Paragraph 6.1 of the lease agreement states: The Landlord hereby covenants with the Tenant [which is the NMH] that so long as the Tenant pays the rents and observes and performs the covenants and the conditions of this Lease the Tenant may hold and enjoy the Premises and the rights hereby granted peaceably during the Term without any unlawful...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Is the effect of the clause I have read out not that the landlord cannot disturb what the tenant is doing on the premises?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: It is, therefore, a standard lease. It is no different from any other commercial lease that is given out in the commercial world.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: The freedom is in there for the lessee or tenant. In other words, the tenant will have full unfettered power to deal with the management of the premises and what goes on within the premises.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: That is right. And the HSE-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Does Mr. McGarr not accept that the licence which the HSE grants sets out clearly what the hospital will be required to deliver?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: The HSE will not give it the licence unless it is prepared to deliver the service which is provided for under legislation in Ireland.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: I will return to the issue of leases and landlords. Has Mr. McGarr come across a situation where a commercial lease is in place and the landlord has suddenly stepped in and told the tenant it cannot do the work it is doing in the premises because the landlord has a different interpretation of what is permitted?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: It is quite clear in this case that as long as the tenant is providing healthcare services, maternity services, it is complying with the terms.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: We are going around in circles on this issue. The licence is going to be granted by the HSE. The landlord is aware that a licence is going to be granted by the HSE. Therefore, the landlord will be aware of the licence that will be granted.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: The licence specifically provides for the HSE, because it is under control of the Department of Health and the legislation clearly sets out what is involved in healthcare in this country, and, therefore, any licence granted by the HSE must be fully in compliance with the legislation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: No. The licence that the NMH-----

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: The NMH will have to comply with the terms of the licence.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: If it cannot comply with the terms of its licence, is it not then in difficulty?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Health: New National Maternity Hospital: Discussion (Resumed) (12 May 2022)

Colm Burke: Going back to the lease, does Mr. McGarr accept that they are going to be the owners and controllers?

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