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Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I will speak very briefly on amendment No. 16, as I had not realised it was grouped previously. This amendment follows on from earlier discussions. Essentially, it reminds the Minister that section 39 of the Act of 2004, as amended by section 198 of the Data Protection Act, does not suspend Article 15 rights. They still stand and can only be curtailed as necessary and proportionate in each...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: Will the Minister respond?

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I am only asking the Minister if he intends to discuss it.

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It is about the interpretation of the section so it does not necessarily need to be part of the legislation.

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I will press the amendment.

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I move amendment No. 17: In page 5, line 4, to delete “Agency” and substitute “Authority”.

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I move amendment No. 18: In page 5, line 4, after “Agency” to insert “and the Authority”.

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I move amendment No. 19: In page 5, between lines 4 and 5, to insert the following: “(2) The provisions set out in this section shall apply as if the specified Minister were a reference to the Minister and the Agency and the Authority.” I regret that last amendment. It was unfortunate that the Minister did not agree to it. Amendments Nos. 19 and 20 are related and both...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: It does not extend things. It is simply that they are happening from two different locations. The section states: "as if the reference, in paragraph (a) of subsection (1), to specified Minister were a reference to the Agency."That relates to the database and related records and the other documents are with the Minister. It seems there are two interpretations of "the Minister" for the...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: No, but it would be a split. My concern is that while the number of documents is the same, there are two different directions in which a future tribunal might go. I want the Minister to have a full and comprehensive set of documents and I would prefer if the tribunal were able to access documents from a single location in an appropriate way. I appreciate the unintended consequence, which...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I move amendment No. 20: In page 5, between lines 4 and 5, to insert the following: "(2) Section 45 of the Act of 2004 shall have dual application to both the Minister and the Agency.".

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I will support the amendment, which relates to the same purpose as my amendments in the grouping, Nos. 36 to 38, inclusive. They seek to ensure the Minister will not tie his hands by limiting the materials that he might get. My amendments seek to ensure he will not explicitly limit himself in the wording of the Long Title, where it would be unnecessary. If he is to make further changes, he...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I think the Minister has the powers but I want it to be made more clear. I am not seeking to constrain him. He will have the opportunity to amend the Title, if he so wishes, when he brings the Bill to the Dáil. The Bill, to a large degree, relates to the depositing of documents. I wanted to ensure that in processing, such as through the data processor relationships I had mentioned...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I cannot pre-empt what the Minister might need to put into the Long Title, according to the amendments he might make.

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: That is perfect.

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I support both of these amendments. The Minister indicated earlier that a form of index is available, but there are a few crucial questions in that regard. This is one of the fundamental asks. We know there are thousands of documents of extraordinarily diverse nature. It is important that we know exactly what we are dealing with so that we know the appropriate way to deal with these...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I want to make the same point. First, there is a general concern about bad practice, and that bad practice is more of a concern today because the main subject matter of the Bill is so sensitive and is a matter of such huge concern. However, there is also a concern that we do not go down the route taken in the United States where there is legislation that amalgamates school meals and gun...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I support the amendment and the idea of a legislative review as it would be appropriate. From the first part of our discussions today the Minister will have heard the concerns and context for the creation of the 2004 Act. It came from a situation where there were legitimate concerns about the former mechanisms. Equally true is the fact that the world has moved on substantially since 2004....

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I move amendment No. 30: In page 5, between lines 35 and 36, to insert the following: “8. The Minister, within 8 months of the passing of this Act, shall publish legislation on the right to information in respect of Mother and Baby Homes, including measures to support access to information on birth, early life, health or family death.”. I want to speak to the wider theme...

Seanad: Commission of Investigation (Mother and Baby Homes and certain related Matters) Records, and another Matter, Bill 2020: Committee and Remaining Stages (16 Oct 2020)

Alice-Mary Higgins: I believe we are on amendment No. 30, a Leas-Chathaoirligh. Amendment No. 30 asks that the Minister, within eight months of the passing of this Act, would publish legislation on the right to information in respect of mother and baby homes, including measures to support access to information on birth, early life, health or family death. Others have spoken very eloquently on this issue of...

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