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Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: We can dance around on this but the bottom line is we are advised that either the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade or some Department of Government has given permission to 2.3 million US marines to come through Shannon Airport with their weapons stored away. Is that a fair point?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I will say a large number.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: You do not want to commit to the number but is it fair to say a huge number of US marines and members of the US army have come through Shannon Airport with the permission of the Government, with a side arm and rifle on board a plane?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: That is for huge numbers.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: That is a fair point. It is just that in the correspondence to this committee it is not acknowledged. You speak about 50,000 in one year, 2013, but in terms of the scale over the period of time that would be a concern. Do you think the fact that two Departments and Government permit such a huge number of members of the US army, marines or whatever, to come through Shannon Airport on the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: How do you define military neutrality?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Would you regard the fact that we permit huge numbers of members of the US army on the way to the theatre of war to stop over and avail of our facilities as commensurate with what you would understand to be military alliances?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I have a final question. You said the process is that the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade would be consulted on potential exemptions and prior approval and would make a recommendation to the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport. Does the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport advise you as to whether it accepted the recommendation?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: In terms of chartered flights going through the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport, is it the responsibility of the company or the US State Department to make the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade aware of what is on board the plane? If an aeroplane is full of US service men and women, which it is acknowledged would be permitted to have side arms or rifles stored away, there is...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Would you be in a position to outline examples? You talked about gases and explosives. Can you provide the committee with examples? Is there a log? Has a record been kept of these? Obviously we will have to communicate with the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport following this meeting. Would the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade have within its files a record of the...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Is that information that the witnesses would be willing to provide to the committee?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Perhaps the Secretary General would clarify that.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: Okay.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: What we seek to do, the witnesses can take this as a request, is to look at the records of the requests made by the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport to the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade showing the itemised lists of what was on board the aeroplane and what the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade recommended or did not recommend. We would like to have access to that...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I will take that question first.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I have some questions. In the correspondence sent to the committee - there was correspondence from the Minister but also from the Department - the Department specified that, in terms of the military aircraft, it has assurances that no weaponry would be carried on board when they land. That is the assurance. It is a matter of trust between states and on that basis, the Department would...

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: It is correspondence dated 15 May 2014. Mr. Robert O'Driscoll, private secretary to the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade, signed off on it. In that, the Department specifies the criteria around military aircraft, but I do not see any reference to the fact that the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport gives permission to considerable numbers of personnel who have weapons on board.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: If there was a plane full of the US marines and every one of them was carrying a rifle and a standard issue pistol, would the authorities allow the plane to come through?

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: I am talking about a commercial plane that has been chartered by the US Government for the purposes of transporting US marines. Mr. Burgess is saying that if they were carrying rifles and pistols on the chartered plane, he would not give them an exemption or prior authorisation.

Joint Oireachtas Committee on Public Service Oversight and Petitions: Use of Irish Airspace and Landing Facilities: Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade (3 Dec 2014)

Pádraig Mac Lochlainn: For argument's sake, if there were 200 US marines and 200 rifles and 200 pistols secured in a different hold, Mr. Burgess would allow the plane to go through.

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