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Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No. That is the difference.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I disagree with the Deputy.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I disagree with the point made regarding the differing designs of the schemes. The fundamental difference between this scheme and the one the Deputy is putting forward is that this has a maximum cap, in cash terms, that a participant can draw down, in this case, a business. In the Deputy's scheme, the maximum cash amount is not there for a household. Does he accept that design difference?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: As a result of that, if there is the absence of a cash cap in the Deputy's scheme, the open-ended cost is therefore greater. That is the design difference.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I accept it is theoretically possible-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: -----but in the modelling we have done on it, we have not come across any scenario in which we think that is likely.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I am glad the Deputy agrees with me because the point I am making is not about the figures for the different costs of our schemes. The point I am making, which the Deputy has just acknowledged, is since there is no cash cap in his scheme, that means the cost is more open-ended than in this scheme. Does the Deputy accept that point?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Does the Deputy accept that point?

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: Does he therefore accept-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We will get to the point-----

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: The Deputy is not going to answer.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I rest my case too because the Deputy has acknowledged my point. In the real world scenario we are in, because his scheme does not have a cash cost, or cash cap for participants in it, the cost risk of his scheme is larger. The Deputy acknowledged the point already that in his scheme there is not an upper limit for how much a household can drawdown, whereas in this scheme, there is an upper...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: No.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I will make a concluding comment. First, I meant to bring this up earlier on but I did not get the opportunity to do it. The Conservative Party is not a sister party of Fine Gael. It left the European People’s Party, EPP, under David Cameron’s leadership. It is not in the Christian democratic political family. I want to make that very clear. The Deputy will be aware as...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We could go on tonight about movement’s that the Deputy's party has been aligned with as well and see where that gets us.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: However, I am not going to. We have been here for two and half days, each of us doing our job.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: We could bring the meeting to a sour end by talking about the different affiliations to other organisations that each of our political parties has had, but I will not do it. I will simply just inform the committee that conservative parties are not members of the political family that Fine Gael is in. Second, I will stand over the point I made very firmly that the maximum amount that...

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 88: In page 190, to delete lines 9 and 10 and substitute the following: “ “billing period” means, in relation to a TBESS electricity bill or a TBESS gas bill, the invoice period or the statement period, as the case may be;”.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No 89: In page 190, between lines 15 and 16, to insert the following: “ “credit institution” has the same meaning as it has in the European Union (Capital Requirements) Regulations 2014 (S.I. No. 158 of 2014);”.

Select Committee on Finance, Public Expenditure and Reform, and Taoiseach: Business of Select Committee (16 Nov 2022)

Paschal Donohoe: I move amendment No. 90: In page 190, to delete lines 21 to 24 and substitute the following: “ “electricity invoice” means the periodic invoice, or that part of the periodic invoice, provided or made available by an electricity supplier to an eligible business in respect of an electricity account, requesting payment for electricity supplied during the invoice period...

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