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Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: I thank Deputy Donnelly. I have a number of questions. I will try to keep them short and I would appreciate it if the witnesses could keep their answers short as well, if possible. In response to Deputy O'Dowd, who pointed out that 22% of nursing homes were not HIQA-compliant, Mr. Breslin pointed out that there is a power to seek deregistration in the courts. In the meantime, however is...

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Even if it is registered and failing, the HSE continues to pay them?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Yes.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Does the HSE pay for new patients in nursing homes that are not HIQA-compliant and are failing infection-control guidelines?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Does the HSE pay for new patients going into the 22% of nursing homes that are failing?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Merely failing infection control is not, therefore, an impediment. Mr. Walsh mentioned discharge, and said individual clinicians were discharging people who were inappropriately in acute hospitals. Can he confirm that only people who were inappropriately in acute hospitals were being discharged?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: I get all of that. My question was: is it only people who were inappropriately in acute hospitals and whose planned treatment had been completed who were discharged? Can Dr. Henry confirm that or not?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Was it only people whose course of treatment had finished who were discharged?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: The witnesses may or may not know this. How many people on any given day are still in acute hospitals even though their course of treatment has finished?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Some 400 people are taking up beds in acute hospitals, whose treatment is complete and they are waiting for somewhere else to go. The only reason they are there is because they have nowhere else to go, even during these times of Covid.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Four hundred is the answer. Mr. Walsh mentioned international comparators and how we needed to be able to free up our acute hospitals because we did not know what was coming at us. Everyone accepts that. The lack of ventilators in Ireland was pointed out at the time. How many have been bought since 1 March?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Deputy Colm Burke mentioned that about 56% of nursing homes had no incidence of Covid, which is obviously good news. Did anyone look at why that was and, in particular, whether there is any correlation between the 56% and nursing homes that did not receive discharges from acute hospitals?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: No, I heard that and appreciate the answer, but did the HSE look at whether there is a correlation between the 56% of nursing homes that had no incidence of Covid and those nursing homes that did not receive discharges from acute hospitals?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Has that correlation been looked at?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: I understand that. Has the HSE examined whether there is a link between the 56% of nursing homes where there is no incidence and the number of nursing homes where there were no discharges from acute hospitals?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Not yet.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: That has not been looked at? That has or has not been looked at?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: Media reports suggest there were 240 deaths in the ten worst affected nursing homes. Is that correct? Were those ten worst affected nursing homes on the list HIQA sent to the HSE, expressing its concerns?

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: The question was more specific. HIQA sent the HSE a list, or it told the committee it did so, of nursing homes that it had specific concerns about in the context of Covid-19.

Special Committee on Covid-19 Response: Congregated Settings: Nursing Homes (Resumed) (18 Jun 2020)

Michael McNamara: First, is it correct that in the ten worst affected nursing homes there were 240 deaths, as reported in the media? Second, were those nursing homes on the list sent to the HSE by HIQA which was concerned about specific nursing homes?

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